Looking for some insight on typical class advancement timeline. My first track day was team Chicago '13 at Grattan as a novice. After a few laps and feel for the track I was lapping my group continuously throughout the day and noticeably faster. My second track day was pro school at Grattan intermediate group and found myself in the same situation.I've been on bikes since age 4 and competing since age 10 in motocross and began riding sport bikes at 18. Started track days to get off the street.I'm 28 now and more interested in progressing on the track. How do I know when I'm ready for advanced group?
Lapping everyone is not necessarily the "in". Get with a coach. It's more about being smooth and predictable and repeatable than being fast.
Yep get with a coach. Have them evaluate your riding and if they think your ready they will bump you.
Yes, as stated above speed is only part of the equation. You have to be smooth, predictable, consistent and possibly most important of all show good decision making such as when to and when not to pass. Advanced needs to be the safest group out there and should be held to the strictest standards especially when it comes to good risk analysis skills.
All the above. Even tho I'm only in Novice, a perfect example of speed not being enough was at Road Atlanta this past November. Some dude on an RC-51 was way faster than me, maybe 10-15 sec a lap, BUT he was riding like a complete dickhead and even a couple instructors were bitching about him. His lines were all over the place, his body position was very erratic and I expected to see him crash multiple times. STT coaches are awesome. Use them!
Speed means very little. I am super slow and I ride in Advanced! I got with a coach we worked on some things, I slowed down to improve and that is where I am at now! Super Slow Motion A Group Rider Guy!
I was at that same RA day. That RC51 was (in my opinion) the most unsafe environment I had been in all year. I was on my SV1000 so he pulled away from me on all the straights, then I would catch him very quickly as soon as we hit turns 1 - 6. After one lap I knew I would not get around him, so I pulled into hot pit. By time the session ended I was just coming out of turn 5 up the hill and I saw him leaving turn 6. Hot pitting worked great. But I know STT runs a great program and the coaches worked with him. Whether he took the information or not we will probably never know.
Sounds like you have a lot of experience with riding and racing. Get with a coach at your next trackday and one of us will assess your ability.
Hate to break it to you Whit but we paid Trevor to bump you up. We needed a rolling roadblock and your riding skills fit the need! Now that you've got new skins and a slipper on your ride you should pick up at least 10-12 seconds!! HJ
LOL>>>> Work on things in Intermediate while you can. Once you start into Advanced some of the track days get VERY VERY fast. They end up falling a weekend before the WERA grand nationals and guys will scare you how fast they are blowing by you. I have to agree with working with the coaches and when you are ready they will let you know. STT has the best staff and they are very useful resources.
If I could only gain the full 12 Seconds!?!?!?!?! Then I would be able to finally make my first PASS in A Group! Only person that I have ever passed in Advanced was Tumbling Out In The Gravel! By The Way! - Congrats! on the new position.... See you at RA....
Trevor told me that he Bumped me to A because he could no longer pass me on the 125cc while he was out in I Group playing!
i wouldn't say it means "very" little by the way. you have to have some sort of speed to be in advance. being able to hold lines and not get spooked are also important. but sometime slow riders can be a bit dangerous especially when there is big disparity among those in the group. i guess i don't tend to agree. just my thoughts.
Remember! My "Slow" is another man's "Fast"..... Just not John Cook "fast"... Or the other 3/4's of the Advanced Group! The Old Saying: "Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast!"
Sounds like your goal is not "A" but getting quicker. If that is correct take advantage of the coaches both for whether you are ready and tips. Talk to someone when you come in about trailing you or something the next session. They might provide insight that will help you reach the goal while still being safe. Oh and if you are to quick I guarantee they have someone that can run with you just fine :nod: In addition to that consider a school if you can. They provide a different environment and focus. Some show you video of yourself and video that lets you see what you are doing vs think you are. IMO much of what they teach can be gotten in books and via STT however the classes I have taken were well worth the time and $$
Some other orgs sort groups by lap times. (roughly) For example, Motovid at Blackhawk Farms: Their main concern in group placement is keeping people close to the same speed as other people, for safety. Keeping people smooth and predictable is important in every group, not just advanced. If someone is riding like an asshat, they need to be taken aside and beaten, er I mean share a friendly discussion about safety. :thumb: If a rider is so much faster than everyone else in the group that passes are getting dangerous, and slow riders are getting scared, :fear: it's time for a bump up. (All IMHO) So basically, like you, I don't agree with the comment that speed isn't important. What does an advanced rider look like when he's still riding in intermediate? A total psychotic asshat. He's doing major weaving to get around slow people, and inevitably inciting unjustified complaints from slower riders. I think a few CR's hear complaints like that and treat it the wrong way, by assuming some sort of guilt when the guy is really just in the wrong group. Something to think about.
I agree with pretty much everything you said except this part. I think it's still possible to be fast, courteous, and follow the rules of your group. Before I got my A bump, I was lapping some of the I group riders, but I made my passes safe, kept 6ft or more from others, and did my best to ensure I didn't startle anyone when passing. Naturally, I can't control anyone's reaction to my riding, but I'm in full control of my bike. As long as you're responsible and respectful of the rules, it continues to be a safe riding environment. STT definitely handles the groups safely, but I don't believe that even an A group rider in N would look like a total assbag. As long as you're within the rules, you'll just look fast. I think we're probably mostly in agreement, I just felt like that one piece wasn't 100% accurate. Just my two cents.
A fast guy in intermediate looks a lot like Jason Disalvo in advanced ound: But having been passed by him he is ZERO hazard even in close. The guy riding in intermediate that is capable of advanced should be making SAFER passes not weaving in and out. After all they are faster and can pass anywhere. I know I give extra room to slower riders in Intermediate. Party as I was them once and extend the courtesy I liked but also because they are not as predictable so I want distance for my hide protection. I agree speed matters but it is not everything. A good example was my first race. I was pitted with another racer who was on time 1. He was on a faster bike but also running about 3 seconds faster than me. I finished my last race avoiding the boot just offline that he lost crossing the bridge while crashing at Barber :first:
