I don't feel like I'm making any real gains at my track day. I don't have lap times to show or look at. I just don't feel like I'm making any/much improvement. I got some good coaching this past weekend at Barber (H/T to Shane)...he says I'm doing things pretty much right...good body position, good drive...helped me with some lines in a couple of places...I think I have a mental block on carrying too much speed in to corners and leaning over. EVERY time I get in a corner I feel like I could have carried more speed in, but can't seem to make myself do it going in. I worked on trail braking a lot in a school a couple of months ago, I got over my fear of braking with lean angle, and now I think I'm using this as a crutch and scrubbing off too much. Thoughts? Sage advice for overcoming mental blocks such as this?
LMAO,, I was going to post this very subject. My times at Putnam are consistently 1:25 to 1:30 No noticeable improvement. Only thing I can add is I'm not having any OH SHIT moment's like I used to. I've been trying to find a rider that's 5 or 10 seconds faster than me and use them to push a little harder but not get over my head. Don't know if this might be one issue your having. For me KNOWING I have to work the next week and can NOT get hurt. SO I will be following this thread, thanks for posting it. Wish you the best with your hiccup.
If all your mechanics are correct, could it be just needing time before you can get used to the speed and can slow things down (mentally)? Take all that you've learned and repeat it over and over until it's subconscious. Then repeat the course over and over until you KNOW how much speed you can carry safely.
More track time will help you get over the hump. As you get into a groove and get past your current comfort ceiling, speed will come. Visualize the track and know where the markers are, braking, turning, shifting etc. Spend some time talking with the coaches, faster guys. Also, your BP and mechanics are good but are your eyes looking far enough ahead (visual tracking)? Many of us have gone through this and it took 1 moment of sudden discovery to realize there was more to push through. No magic way of doing it really, other than going out there riding, visualizing, communicating, learning, and pushing past your current comfort level onto the next one! Following a fast guy helps too! The easy thing to say would be - Get on the gas earlier My "aha moment" came when I started spending time visualizing the track in my head and running through my motions. It helped me become smoother, helped slow down the speed, ingrained the track (turns, brake points, shift points etc.) into memory. Basically doing what I mentioned above (worked with the coaches, more experienced/faster riders) and put it all together. And I'm still learning Barber, that will never end. The track has many secrets! Good luck!
Getting behind a guy 5-10 seconds faster is a bit too much...I try to get behind someone just a bit faster than me and build from there. Worked for me.
My vision is something that is really evolving. How far to "look down the track" is something I'm getting varying answers on. Last school I did, I was told I was looking too far down the track and not being specific enough in identifying my on track targets. I try to ID my next target, point the bike at it, then move my eyes to the next target. Before I was looking as far down the track as I could. As for brake markers...I'm NOT doing a good job at ID'ing these, and I know this. Part of the reason for this is so much work in the corners, I was not really going full out in the straights. I try to have a plan for the day, but I am probably not good at sticking with it. One thing I do, is study video of the track. I have some on-board video of me from a school at Barber, and some video from a coach riding behind me, as well as looking at video of other riders at track days at the same track. Trying not to overthink it...I think it's pretty much like you say...biggest thing is try to push a little harder each session, but not over-reach...while using good technique.
right now things don't seem to be moving way fast, but they are not in slow motion like when you're in the zone either...but I don't have the confidence to lean the bike and carry more speed in turns.
a lap timer will help with what you are going through, to help track your progress by time (if that is your thing). place it on the bike so you cant see it during your riding session. only look at it after a session when you have time to digest the info it is presenting to you. and honestly evaluate the track, weather, how you felt on the bike/track, traffic ect... lots of variables. getting someone 5-10 seconds a lap faster than you, wont help much. they are so far gone, so fast, you can only see them for a corner or two (or less). latch on to someone that is half a second, or 3 seconds or less, faster than you. now you can see what they are doing, and push your thresholds a little, and safer. you try to keep up with someone 5 seconds a lap faster than you, and you may wind up on your head. get a coach/instructor (in all groups, not just N and I), and talk to them, go over what you want to accomplish. that is what they are there for. you may have to go through a few coaches, before you find one you can absorb the info they are telling you, and you jell with them. getting the instructor to evaluate you, will give you ideas on areas where you are weaker. entrance, exit, body position, section of the track ect... work on small parts of the track at a time, then put the whole track together as one fluid lap. riding schools like Disalvo, California superbike, ycrs ect... can help too but, it is a lot more money, and time commitment. seat time, and instruction will get you where you want to go. "speed is a matter of money, how fast do you want to go". good luck, in your quest... we have all been there, or are there. my break through's at track days, happened by getting more acquainted with the staff, making friends, and asking for help. I have taken instructions from most of the northern, and some southern staff. they have all helped to get me safer, more predictable, and pushing my personal best times, on a regular basis. the big speed break through came when I went racing with wera. nothing can duplicate the racing environment, and what it can do to your lap times, when a 4.00 dollar piece of wood is on the line. Ski
Some really good advice so far to think on. Only thing I would add is don't be to hard on yourself. Going over and over the stuff you are doing well will help to get you more comfortable and then you can add a little each session or track day. The use of brake markers is also important. Don't know what bike you have but going with a small cc bike will help too if your budget allows. And being predictable and smooth is the most important thing.
Remember to have fun..... And do what Ski says... Pair up with a Coach 1-1 the whole day next time.. It can be arranged...
A lot of great advice. Get a coach, thats what they are there for.. Another thing, work on one or two corners at a time. Ride the rest of the track, but focus on brake markers, turn in markers, your line, apex and where you are getting on the gas in one corner, and maybe one on the opposite side of the track. Do this until you get that corner down, move on to the next etc. Trying to do the every corner when you are learning and or learning the track can become overwhelming. Once you have one corner, it may take one session or five, but once you have it you have it. Next thing you know you have 2, 3, 4 and then the track becomes much easier. Slow down a little, work on being smooth. If you are smooth, speed will come naturally. If you are trying to go fast, smoothness comes hard, and crashes come easy.
Are u uncomfortable on your bike at lean? Or are u uncomfortable with your corner entry speed. The first one might be technique. The second probably just needs repetition. Just one last thought... If you feel like in the corner, you are not in control of the bike, that you are just along for the ride, then that points to something wrong with your technique. At novice pace, you really should be loose enough on the bike to be in full control to change lines, add lean, countersteer if needed. Control comes from not being tense on the bike. Being loose means not supporting your weight on your wrists, not supporting your weight on your wrists mean locking your lower body from the peg to the tank. Go over riding techniques from different sites and make sure you are in control... Good luck!
I am fairly loose on the bike. I'm not confident the tires will hold. Simple as that. I have a mind block against pushing harder, leaning more. Every corner I go in a little tight, and by the time I reach the apex I'm thinking "damn I could have carried a lot more speed in." My body position isn't horrible. I don't get off the bike really well, I'm short (5ft 8in) and heavy 228lbs and 51 years old. I just got on a sportbike for the first time in my life last summer. I didn't ride from age 21 to age 47. I am off the bike to the inside, but not a lot. I'll attach pics...maybe you can see something to answer your questions, or to advise me on. I'll say this...I've "studied" a lot. I've done Levels 1-4 of the California Superbike School. I've read Code's book. I've done 4 more track days with STT and listened to the coaching there. I've studied DiSalvo's stuff online. I get the basics of vision, throttle control, braking (done a good bit of trail braking work) line choice, counter steering, body position, etc. I get it in my head, but...I have confidence issues. Never drug a knee yet. I know that doesn't make you fast...I get that...but it's a milestone that every track rider needs to hit to get some confidence. A "OK, I did that, now lets really learn to ride" thing. I'm not obsessed with that, BUT it's also a symptom of my lack of confidence. Appreciate you taking the time to respond. here's some pics...don't know what you can or can't see in them. CSS at VIR last summer. A few pics of me at CSS at Barber about 6 weeks ago. Me this past weekend at Barber
It can be done within the grounds of the Novice Program as long as the Coach is still taking care of his other students... It would be 1-1 for you and 1-y . or so before Lunch for the Coach... However after Lunch when your set free is the time to ask ask ask.... Looking at your Pics you really need to get WAY off that big bike to make things work.... If you had a smaller 600 ect the fundamentals would come much sooner... You haven't hit a Wall necesarilly but your climbing one... It will take a bit to get up to speed on a heavy bike... Trust me..I know..... I started on a TL1000R.... If your coming to Road Atlanta I would be happy to work with you on or off the track....
On the S1000R, you look high on the bike.and the way you are holding your elbows out a little, maybe tense like you said. You obviously have the knowledge base, having done CSS 4. I think it's just a matter of incorporating it in your riding and applying it each and every corner until it gets second nature. To me, this sounds like you just need repetition until you can relax on corner entry. I like the idea of working on one corner at a time on a trackday. But before that, I would pick a stretch of road (not long) with a couple or handful of turns you can practice on and ride it a hundred times, 10x a day. Going at a slower speed at first will make it easier to relax on entry with your initial steering input. Doing it over and over again will give you the confidence to increase your speed through the corner a little each day. Don't try to go faster, you will go faster naturally after doing the same few corners over and over and over. It's as much a mental exercise as physical. When you are doing that, work on the things you learned in CSS. Focus on the vision and body position stuff. Save the throttle control for later. I think immediately, as stated by Coach above, get your upper body inside the midline of the bike, open up your hips to slightly face the corner. Do this before the turn and not while you are leaning. That will put you in a more secure position immediately and perhaps not feel so unstable going in. This might sound hokey, but I started taking notes every day. What I worked on, what worked, what didn't. Weighting the pegs, looking through the corner, actively staying loose so I could countersteer the bike throughout the corner, things like that. I'll throw in suspension setting, tire wear and weather conditions, but like it matters. I learn best watching and watching Disalvo in this vid gave me the mental image of what I should be doing and feeling on a bike. Then it's a job of visualizing yourself doing it, then doing it.