Feel like I've hit a wall.

Discussion in 'STT General Discussion' started by KBikeJim, Jul 17, 2017.

  1. indy

    indy What's an apex?

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    So if your BP is setup and that's not the problem?
     
  2. KBikeJim

    KBikeJim Rides with no training wheels

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    I try to be aware of having the bike "settled" tipping in. As I said earlier...what I "know" and what I put in to practice are very different. I TRY to set up early as you say. My mental routine is 1. ass off the seat to the proper side, 2. down shift 3. brake 4. tip in. Fatigue will cause late set up...Charging a corner will get my survival reactions going and cause me to forget to set up early. As I said...when I work on one technique, usually another suffers, because little of this is second nature to me yet.

    I really appreciate all the "coaching" here...it all helps.

    My BP is such that when all is good, I'm ok...even when it's "good" I'm still not way off the bike, or even off enough really, but I am inside the centerline and my head and upper body is low. And I'm not crossed up. Again, fatigue and other factors...nothing I do is at a high level of consistency yet. I have learned here...work the techniques...the speed will naturally come. I intend to do that, and TRY not to worry about anything other than getting more consistent. And I welcome your on track coaching as soon as we can get back to the track. I should be at Barber in Mid August.
     
  3. TLR67

    TLR67 Cheers!
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    Read post 23... If you follow that you will always be set up....I think it's like GP shift... Once you learn it you will never go back.. And it's the best advice I had had from DiSalvo to help my riding ten folds...
     
  4. KBikeJim

    KBikeJim Rides with no training wheels

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    I will make this part of my plan today.
     
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  5. LATT

    LATT Take Only What You Need.

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    Forgive me if you've already mentioned it but what bike are you on? If you're on a liter bike then that will make your corner speed learning curve much mor difficult because ya know....liter bikes are scary at first.

    From my own personal experience my answer would be to go racing. I hit that same wall and was stuck at intermediate trackday pace for about 2 years and wanted badly to improve. I worked on technique, body position, did a Vision Sports school, read the Keith Code books etc.. but something happened in my mind after I raced for a season. I began to see the track differently and realized that my fear going into corners was just nonsense, that the grip levels of my Michelens was far greater then I had imagined. I started looking farther ahead and picking out easily identifiable brake markers just sort of on instinct. I know it's not the most technical answer but that is what got me past my wall.

    Nothing raises your intensity level quite like lining up on the grid surrounded by 20 other riders.
     
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  6. KBikeJim

    KBikeJim Rides with no training wheels

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    Well, I rode L'il Tally Sunday. Tried to work on BP. This absolutely does not come natural to me. If I'm not actively concentrating on getting off the bike, I don't. I saw some video from a session, and I'm in no better a position than I was at the last track day. It simply is NOT going to happen for me without concerted effort. I don't naturally go with the bike. I have to make effort just to do that. Is this normal?
     
  7. jcw

    jcw What's an apex?

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    Baby steps. Don't think about hanging off just yet.
    Think about weight shifting to the inside of the midline. Whole body shifted just a little.
    Sounds like you simply need more seat time.

    Pick a short 1-2 mile loop, do it 10x a day, everyday, work on body shifting not hanging off. In two weeks you'll have done a trackday's worth. In a month you'll be more comfortable.

    The thing is body positioning should not just help you corner faster, it should put you in a more secure and comfortable position. At least at the level we are it.
     
    #47 jcw, Jul 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  8. KBikeJim

    KBikeJim Rides with no training wheels

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    I'm on a "naked" liter bike. So it's only 160HP instead of 190. ;-)

    And this also factors in to my BP issues being that I'm in a more upright position.

    Racing is something I'm shooting for, but don't think I'm ready yet. That said, more than once this has been suggested in a "just do it" way.
     
  9. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Rides with no training wheels

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    One thing that will sound strange but helped me on corner speed (still does at times) is get behind a little bike. A TZ is AWESOME for this. Then do not pass them on the straight, let off some if you need to. There speed is all in the corner so you will work harder to stay with them.

    The best case is a little bike that either passes you or shows you a wheel a few times that you 'could' pass back on the straight. Next time someone on a slower bike does this just lay out a bit on the throttle and get a tow. Even if they pull you some in the corner then use top end to catch them but not pass them.

    When I was running 'I' just at the start one of my fastest times up until then was doing that with a control rider on his wifes small displacement bike (he had his jersey off so I did not know it was control until we stopped at the end). Lots of fun.
     
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  10. borgnsr

    borgnsr Rides with no training wheels

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    Even better - make a small investment and get on the smaller bike. There is nothing that will teach you better.

    Just getting on a different bike will help you break out of long held, long forgotten habits. If the bike is very different, you will have to learn to ride it again, and that can help break those old patterns up for you to rebuild them.
     
  11. tnskydivr

    tnskydivr Shut up and Jump!
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    YES this is part of the normal progression...
     
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  12. JustinFRC

    JustinFRC track day backmarker

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    Since it's a track day and not a race, I think that's a good policy to follow all the time just as a matter of courtesy. If somebody shows me a wheel, I roll off the throttle just enough to let them by. They've caught me, they're faster than I am, no point in holding them up or making them fight to get around me.
     
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  13. sheepofblue

    sheepofblue Rides with no training wheels

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    The other benefit of that is some times the fun is just beginning then. On the RC51 it is strong where 600's are weak and vice versa. So if some one comes by that is similar pace you might swap back and forth the entire session. Did that once with a guy on a 600 and both of us came in laughing as it was a blast. Not racing or aggressive type of back and forth but good fun.

    In general I agree at a track day if you show me a wheel you go by, then it is up to you to stay there.
     
  14. mackja

    mackja What's an apex?

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    A lot of good advice here, almost to much to take in, 8 day is just not enough, it takes time for your confidence to build, and with that your skills. As your pace picks up the bike will start to do things you may not have experienced before, so understanding and being able to react to what the bike is telling you is important. Trying to go to fast to early usually ends in disaster, remember at higher rates of speed things happen faster. I spent a long time in Novice too, because I did not want to endanger myself or anyone else. I have always tried to ride at 80-85% always leaving myself room for those oh sh*t moments, if you are riding at 100% or worse over your head you will not be able to improve and eventually you will bite the pavement hurting yourself, your bike and possible someone else. Improvements will come, for me they came in chunks. I would hit the wall as you put it, then one day I picked up several second, wall again, then picked up more time. Even as an Advanced rider I still say to my self "damn I can carry more speed through that corner" . Don't be in a rush, take your time work on being smooth and predictable, work on one thing at a time, perfect that skill and go to the next. Most of all enjoy yourself.
     
    #54 mackja, Jul 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2017
  15. SGTJimbo

    SGTJimbo Found the apex, now what do I do with it?
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    Lots of great advice, also break the track down in to sections, and instead of trying to improve on the whole track, pick one corner per section and work specifically on that corner, your body position, brake marker, turn in point, apex and exit. Once you have that corner down, do the next, slowly you will tie the whole track together and the body position will become more "normal". You can work on one corner in one section and one in another. Focus on the basics, even slow down a little and work on being smooth and hitting your marks consistently. As you get more consistent you will pick up pace naturally.
     
  16. design-engine

    design-engine What's an apex?

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    Time to go racing then
     
  17. Ninjeff

    Ninjeff Trackday 101.

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    Hey, lots of good advice in here, and i just wanted to stop in and offer words of encouragement. I spent 12 days in Novice before the bump, and have only 3 real days in I at this point. I am just now starting to climb over that "wall" you speak of. Most of it was being relaxed. I, too, always feel like i can carry more speed at any given point. The videos validate this, and can add to frustration sometimes as you might feel like you should be better.
    I know the feeling.

    But, when you're out there, actually riding, you think "well, i'd rather be safe and so i wont push it" which is GOOD mostly. This isnt a race and none of us are riding for the championship.
    What i've found that helps is just concentrating on one or two corners that i "like" and really try and dial those in. That way i have something to look forward to every lap, (weeeee i love this corner!) and I don't get too discouraged. Next session i might pick a different set, or try and add 5mph more speed per corner. Just a tiny bit here, and a tiny bit there.
    It can feel like a long process -and it is- but it helps settle me down and allow my mind to focus on bite sized improvements.

    If you're anything like me, you dont have super aspirations of a fancy race career, you just like the "zen" of the ride and being able to accomplish something.
    Just remember that this is supposed to be fun, and dont get too bogged down in being the "fastest". Just take it one step at a time and dont get too frustrated.

    I know yesterday my day at ACC South started sour and i was getting down on my skills. Luckily i have some good friends that just encouraged me to take a beat, ride a bit slower to smooth out my lines and settle the bike and BOOM just like that i started having more fun and -wouldnt you know it- started going faster.

    If you're ever up North at one of the ACC courses you are welcome to come pit with us!
     
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