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Sportbike Track Time Forum
GET ON THE RIGHT TRACK WITH SPORTBIKE TRACK TIME |
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ads109
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Chicago, IL
Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:56 pm
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 Wheel balancing question(s)
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Is it o.k. to balance a front wheel/tire without the rotors?
Same question for rear wheel and rotor/cush drive/sprocket. I'm pretty sure the last time I had my rear wheel balanced it had the rotor and tire on it but not the cush drive and sprocket.
Thanks in advance for the help!
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2007 Suzuki SV650S track bike
2006 Ducati Multistrada 1000S street bike
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totoole
Joined: 16 Jun 2007
Posts: 85
Location: South Point, Ohio
Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:13 pm
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For balancing rotors should be on the front wheel.
As for rear, take off the sprocket and cush drive when balancing, but the rotor should be left on.
Tim
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silvr6
Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 208
Location: PA
Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:33 pm
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agreed
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#383
Wera Nv.
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Tdub
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Owensboro Ky
Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:58 pm
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| totoole wrote: |
As for rear, take off the sprocket and cush drive when balancing, but the rotor should be left on. |
Just curious as to the thought behind this? Tdub
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JakeLewis85.info
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TLR67
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1250
Location: North Georgia
Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:08 pm
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| Tdub wrote: | | totoole wrote: |
As for rear, take off the sprocket and cush drive when balancing, but the rotor should be left on. |
Just curious as to the thought behind this? Tdub |
Keeps my hands from getting greasy! Not to mention it wont fit in the balance stand... 
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Marc Perrone
Southern Division Instructor and Tire Monkey
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Live Life to the Fullest!!
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Healea-Coil
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Mount Gilead, Ohio
Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:08 pm
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| Tdub wrote: | | totoole wrote: |
As for rear, take off the sprocket and cush drive when balancing, but the rotor should be left on. |
Just curious as to the thought behind this? Tdub |
Nobody trackside balances tires with the cush drive in...
You have to get the axle and nut tight to seat the cush drive properly. Technically, you could have the cush drive somewhat inperfect in the wheel and cause a mis-read of the balance of the tire...
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WERA #10
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Tdub
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Owensboro Ky
Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:21 pm
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Healea-Coil
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Mount Gilead, Ohio
Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:13 pm
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| Tdub wrote: | | But would you agree that "ideally" it should be balanced with the cush drive and sprocket? |
In theory, I guess. I always thought the same thing until I brought up my wheel with the cush drive one time. One time... I was slightly embarrassed after...
I think again it is due to not being able to secure it tightly as if it were on the bike... Not sure, though.
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WERA #10
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Tdub
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Owensboro Ky
Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:43 pm
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I just always figured that anything to do with the rotating mass would affect the balance, don't know what theory would have to do with it as you would not be working with an unknown. I know when I would use a spin balancer, I always included it...but I also agree that the entire assembly usually doesnt fit the static balancers that the trackside guys use. As far as one of the tire guys laughing at me, hmmm....
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Healea-Coil
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 269
Location: Mount Gilead, Ohio
Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:52 pm
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| Tdub wrote: | | I just always figured that anything to do with the rotating mass would affect the balance, don't know what theory would have to do with it as you would not be working with an unknown. I know when I would use a spin balancer, I always included it...but I also agree that the entire assembly usually doesnt fit the static balancers that the trackside guys use. As far as one of the tire guys laughing at me, hmmm.... |
Oh, you using like a Coats or Snap-on computerized balancer? You can essentially tighten it up pretty good with one of those...
I'd be interested to do a back to back test. I can get the cush drive to fit my cones on my balancer. Maybe I will try and see how much of a difference it would be. You should try it on your set up, too to see...
Yeah, they laughed at me. But, I have a lot to laugh about so, I didn't get offended. Plus, I was pretty new at this back in 94 when they did. Since, I laugh at others to make myself feel better...
Especially short guys named Monte... 
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Mouse525
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 74
Location: Aurora, IL
Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:56 pm
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| Tdub wrote: | | totoole wrote: |
As for rear, take off the sprocket and cush drive when balancing, but the rotor should be left on. |
Just curious as to the thought behind this? Tdub |
The thought behind this is the cush drive is a movable object and you need to be in the geometric center of the rim to get the best static balance. With the cush drive and wheel spacers off and connecting the balancer to the wheel bearings, you are reducing issues caused by friction.
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Tdub
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Owensboro Ky
Tue Mar 09, 2010 4:11 pm
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I don't know about your balancer, but my static balancer does not rely on the wheel bearings to operate, but rather its own rollers.
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jigmoore
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1250
Location: grand rapids, mi
Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:36 am
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you DO NOT balance with cush drive and sprocket. Since these can be removed and re-installed in different orientations possibly doubling the balance error (at least that caused by the cush and sprockets), you always do not include easily removable items in the balancing.
rotors stay on because they typically stay attached to the rims for the life of the rim (or at least certainly the life of the current tire)
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Tdub
Joined: 09 Nov 2009
Posts: 280
Location: Owensboro Ky
Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:21 am
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| jigmoore wrote: | you DO NOT balance with cush drive and sprocket. Since these can be removed and re-installed in different orientations possibly doubling the balance error (at least that caused by the cush and sprockets), you always do not include easily removable items in the balancing.
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Ok, you have affirmed what I have been wondering. If you agree that the cush drive can in fact cause a balanced wheel to be out of balance, why would you want to not balance as a unit, taking into concideration the orientation of the cushdrive?
I realize this is not the norm, just trying to uderstand why not. Tdub
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jigmoore
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1250
Location: grand rapids, mi
Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:39 am
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| Tdub wrote: | | jigmoore wrote: | you DO NOT balance with cush drive and sprocket. Since these can be removed and re-installed in different orientations possibly doubling the balance error (at least that caused by the cush and sprockets), you always do not include easily removable items in the balancing.
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Ok, you have affirmed what I have been wondering. If you agree that the cush drive can in fact cause a balanced wheel to be out of balance, why would you want to not balance as a unit, taking into concideration the orientation of the cushdrive?
I realize this is not the norm, just trying to uderstand why not. Tdub |
the balance error is negligable the closer the imbalance is to center of mass, and can only be worsened if you mix up which cush went where, and how the sprocket was oriented. plus what others said about how much of a pain in the ass it is to have them balanced that way at the track.
do what you want. but it's unnecessary. same argument would apply in why don't we balance down to the 1/1000th of a gram. because there is a point of diminishing returns, and there is some reward of reliability in simplicity.
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