Perhaps a record? I don't know, but that was possibly the worst trackday I've ever experienced. lot's of people riding over their head, and sadly neither those that crashed, nor those that may have caused or nearly caused crashes, seemed to be aware of how really dangerous their behavior is to themselves and others. as a control rider this sunday, I could see several places we could improve on how the track days are running, but damn it people...we are on a closed circuit roadrace course...NOT AN EPISODE OF SUPERBIKES! some of the new faces I've been seeing at our trackdays need to listen up at riders' meetings and show a little more respect for the sport before they, or worse, others they come in contact with, learn the hard way. :cry: kath :evil:
22 crashes?? Ridiculous. How many in A group, Kath? I could only recall 3 or 4. The crap going on in pit lane was horrible too.
HOLY S@#% that's alot of crashes!!!! :shock: :shock: I'm not talking smack because I've crashed myself on the track before, but I do seriously try to stay in my limits and I'm definitely not doing wheelies and stoppie's. It sounds like there were alot of people riding irresponsibly and putting others at risk to me. :wink: I absolutely love riding on the track and I tell everyone that I know that knows I ride that yes, even though it's an adrenaline rush and really fast it is ALOT safer than it looks. I hope some people aren't taking that added safety for granted. :evil:
Safety starts at home. I see people blame the "squids" and the other guy all the time. Blameing others only blinds us to our own errors and faults. WE are the squids and WE are the other guy. I crashed at Pocono in August ( after fifteen years, my first at a track day ever) due to MY errors, mainly trying to ride fast rather than well and getting caught up in trying to race with others, both of which I usually keep under control. The final straw was asking the rear tire for more drive than it was capable of producing and over heating it in the process. Yes, others do things that irritate us and they can cause safety issues, they rarely seem to cause others to crash,however. So the next time some "squid" cause you a problem, ask yourself what part you played in the situation. Rarely are we blame free. Mike
that was kinda my point. How about that one Reduc weekend at the Beaver? 1 out of 6 riders crashed that weekend. No reason for it, it just kinda happened.
Mike, I agree that all riders are responsible for what is happening at the track and that we can always pull off the track and back on rather than making a dangerous pass....However this sunday at pocono was just crazy and out of control. while some of the "issues" could have been resolved by people using their heads, the over crowded conditions and the fact that inexperience riders are allowed to bump up despite their lack of experience was the main cause of a number of crashes or near crashes that we both witnessed. Carol
Yeah it was a first time STT trackday for me. I have usually done BCM days, but I thought I 'd give this a try. I was in the Novice group for the day, and for me it was plenty fast enough. When I was getting on my bike to go out for the first session, I can see bikes being towed in already. In the morning sessions, there were 2 guys kind of riding solo, without being part of a group. They surprised me once, passing right before the hairpin, but nothing to scary. Though, at the post session meeting, a couple of people seemed to have closer calls. I believe the two solo riders were booted by the afternoon session. I don't remember us having too many incidents, a couple of downed riders that got up and walked away. Well, except for the guy on the R1. We were starting our session and he left about 10 seconds before me. By the time I rounded the first corner, I could see red flags. Hope he's ok. Overall, I learned a lot, really liked our instructors in novice ( Mine was Renard ), and had a pretty safe day considering others. Of course I would have liked more time on the track as the crashes caused some cancelled sessions, but again, hopefully no one is seriously hurt. Driving home, I was really having some doubts though, as I'd never been to a day with so many wrecks, and was wondering if its the norm for STT. I'm glad to see so many posts indicating otherwise. I would definitely give it another try sign up again. I only wished I had remembered to bring some water for the morning sessions ( I didn't discover the cafeteria till lunch ), but two kids at home make you forget a lot... Best Oz PS I didn't think to come around and look for you to say Kath. We had had some emails about STT and Turkey on the Duc list a while back. Now that I see your yellow duc, I will know who to look for to say hello, next time..
I wasn't there, but I'm hearing it was overbooked. Is that the reason for having two intermediate groups? It was that overbooked? If that's the case, I find it inexcusable. Overbooking creates an unsafe environment. Did that attribute to the problems this past weekend?
if it was overbooked, then having 2 intermediate groups meant that it wasn't a crowded track. i can't see how this would be responsible for the amount of crashes if the groups were smaller. i know that there were about 45 in the intermediate group, and if they were separated into two groups, that meant that the intermediate group was, if anything, smaller than the other groups. everyone still got one session per hour- just 5 minutes shorter than usual. david's idea to make 4 groups makes sense as there are plenty of novices around who have already done a track day and novice class, and don't want to have to do the school again. they don't feel like they are ready to go into the intermediate group, but don't want to have to do the follow-the-leader type stuff. i rode in novice, and inter 1 and 2 in the afternoon. i didn't thinkk it was overcrowded- but then again, everyone left after the second whirlybird. my theory on the rash of crashes? lot's of brave riders combined with the fact that it was cold, the track surface was cold, and the riders didn't make the apropriate changes in tire pressure, and just plain went too fast before the tires were ready to do so.
That's true, splitting 45 riders into two groups puts an acceptable amount on the East course, which is a max of about 25 riders. My question is why did this need to be done? Was it determined ahead of time to change the format, or was it a forced change due to overbooking the Intermediate group?
From what was said in the riders meeting, the Int group was overbooked and that was the reason for the two groups. I believe they ran Int1 and Int2(more advanced int). This may have been part of the problem. Some of the egos probably put people in 2 when they shouldn't have etc.. But the groups people were in probably wasn't as much to blame as poor choices.
the two int groups I felt was a good thing. I don't think it was too crowded at all. 15 minutes is plenty for me and I had open track most of the time. This makes more sense than the expert/ racer groups of the Reduc days. I did pass a little closer than the 6' rule but cleanly and on the outside.
SAFETY, SAFETY AND MORE SAFETY needs to be stressed at the riders meeting. I for one have 2 small children and a wife at home that would be seriously pissed if I didn't come home at the end of a track day......nuff said. Interesting question....did ant rider crash more than once on Sunday? And if so, did he/she crash during 2 sessions back to back? The old Reduc rule of if you crash you sit one full rotation makes sense for a few reasons. One it makes sure the rider who crashed can calm down and possibly evaluate what went wrong. Two, it serves as a punishment if you crash and some people only react to this type of behavior modification.
I did a track day at Gingerman that was a STT-Ducs Unlimited day and that had a Intermediate A and B. (Two groups for 15min.) That actually worked out really well. I know that Intermediate tends to get kind of overcrouded and when it was split between the two and we still received 15min sessions it worked out great! More people got to go. We still received a ton of track time and it wasn't overcrouded. That definitely did work in that department.
People were riding over their heads not their tires. Admittedly, I've never ridden fast enough for tires to matter, but there were people without tire warmers getting around that track plenty fast and smooth despite the temps. If we're not able to ride more thoughtfully, someone needs to take the lead and sit the pit lane stunters down. Perhaps a lunch time word from our sponsors would have helped. Nicole
I don't have a problem with running 2 intermediate groups, 15 min sessions. Agreed that does seem to make more sense than Reduc's expert group. There's probably more of a demand for 2 intermediate groups vs an advanced and an expert group. I just don't like the fact that it was only done because they severely overbooked the event. Poor planning. Why doesn't registration close when the max number of riders has been reached for the day? And yeah, what rules are in place? Are the Reduc rules verikip mentioned still in place with regards to crashing? Black flags? The pit lane stunts shouldn't be tolerated.