Can someone please tell me the disadvantage or running a race tire for an intermediate rider. (besides cost) I'm being told not to run a Michelin Power Race even if I have warmers but with no reasoning. I am new to the sport but it seems to me I would want the stickiest tire I can find. I have been riding a bike for years and on my first track day I did get the bike pretty low; to the point I was toe scraping. Not trying to say that is impressive or even that I am a remotely good rider but I just want to have confidence that if I do go low into a turn I'm not going to low side cuz I'm running chitty rubber! Any technical help would be great! Thanks
You can get very low on street rubber. Dragging your toes is not what your after if you are dragging toe and not your knee at the same time you need to work on body position. If it was an instructor telling you to not run race tires they know what they are saying. Get to that riding level and they will tell you to chuck them but dont call good street rubber chitty rubber that they definitely are not.
Two different issues there... Regarding the toe scraping, that's a body position issue. Scraping toe does nothing for you aside from wear out your boots faster. Tap a coach on the shoulder at your next track day and tell them what you need help with. Race tires (with warmers) are a different issue. If there is a detriment, it has to do with how and when they lose traction. True, they will allow a higher degree of lean, etc., and may actually allow you to learn more initially without worrying about them letting go. When you start to improve, however, there is a lot to be said about learning to "listen" to your tires. The DOTs will provide you a wider margin between when the tire starts to slide and when it finally breaks traction. (Jump in any time, Jig!) There are lots of guys out there who have learned to manage traction on DOTs and run plenty fast without having to fidget with warmers in the pits. Besides, it's a lot quieter without all those generators running! -Tom
Ok I've got a question for the tire experts that should help the OP. So street tires offer good traction over a wide heat range. Race tires offer great traction but over a much narrower heat range. So the questions is: if the rider is too slow to generate enough friction to keep the heat in the race tires is it not possible that the street tires will offer better traction? For me I can feel the difference in my rear tire(power race) as it heats up and builds a few extra psi. When cold it feels squishy and wiggles around as I get on the throttle. Once it heats up this feeling goes away. Typically this is the first session of the day when I haven't put my warmers on early enough. After that with the warmers on the tires are fine. Sometimes when learning a new track I don't go hard enough in the first session and the tires don't build enough heat/pressure and the squishyness doesn't go away. While learning a track I would run a slow advanced pace and then pick it up to a mid pack advanced pace once I have an idea of the layout. Later Steve
That's a very valid concern. I definitely noticed this while coaching Intermediate at monticello a couple weeks ago. without adequate heat, you will run the risk of goofy handling, cold tearing and cold tire crashes. There's a lot to be said about using street compound tires- many coaches still use plain ol' pilot powers. Dennis Baker can do 1:29's at grattan on them & that's blazing fast for a 5 year old design street tire. The Pilot Power 2ct are a step up from that in performance and are reported to be an excellent cool weather tire. The Power Pures are the most amazing street tire ive ever used- they warm up quickly, wear like iron, have excellent grip & are great for any skill level at a track day, don't require warmers & can be run in the rain. Simply an amazing tire. btw, here's something to read about the ? to use, or not to use tire warmers: http://www.trackdaymag.com/Articles/Why-use-tire-warmers-.aspx
Lance, actually there are a few of us here in the midwest that have dipped into the low 1:27's and high 1:26's on POWERS. IMO, using race rubber at intermediate pace is both wasteful and a lost opportunity to learn. Many people make up for poor form, skill and throttle management with tires. This forms bad habits that, if corrected early on a tire that communicates well and forces learning throttle management, will prevent issues later on. And yes, the heat just wont be there for them to be beneficial. The latest generation of street/track tires are spectacular and will communicate well in situations where errors are made by the user. No, you cant ride 110% on them and you cant be as aggressive into, or out of corners, but you CAN be aggressive and SMOOTH in and out of the corner. Just my $.02 and hey, what do i know...
With ambient temps in the low 50s. :shock: They can get a little greasy when pushed for several laps on hot days. Very predictable though. Pilot Powers continue to amaze me. So much so, that I haven't even got around to trying the 2CTs yet, let alone the Power Ones.
OK. I'm going to stick with the 2ct's for a few more track sessions or until a coach thinks I should change. I do need to work on body position but I was dragging the knee at the same time as the toe going through turn 2 at Road America.
Definitely work on your body position, starting with your feet... I have a size 14 boot & the only time I drag a toe is when I'm sliding on the ground.
Definitely work on your body position, starting with your feet... I have a size 14 boot & the only time I drag a toe is when I'm sliding on the ground.
I kinda doubt the OP had even a knee down at RA in turn 2 hehe - that's the one that doesn't really exist...you were probably thinking of turn 3 onto the back straight. All that said here's my meager 2 cents, if you find you are destroying the edges (last 15% of the tire on each side) of a 2ct in under 4 track days with a well tuned suspension...you might want to think about the race compounds - have never run the new commercial power ones so I've got no opinion there I've personally only even had a 2ct step out on me once after 4 track days of good hard right side use (3 days at RA...) and that was at Black Hawk on the ripples in turn 1 and she regripped 4 inches or so outside the nubbly pavement...actually made for a very fast exit to turn 1 there hehe Edit - forgot to mention I've had my toes in the pavement on he exit of the carosel at 105+ on 2cts...they grip just fine)
If the OP is dragging his toes, it may not be foot position. If he is running stock footpegs, some of those just don't have enough clearance. In regards to using the race rubber for Intermediate track days, I have a Pilot Race Medium on the rear of my R1 and run a fast intermediate pace. I use tire warmers. I get nice even tire wear with no tearing and I like how the bike feels now. ymmv.
Ok. I ran the first session in the intermediate and got bumped to the A division. I put on the Pilot Race the next day and just destroyed the tire in 3 sessions! It is like a cut all the way around. Is this cold tearing? I have warmers on... (alt+p)
It's hard to tell by the pic but about 1in from the lip is a nice size gash. I can get my finger nail in the tear and almost "flap" it over. PS - How do I get the pic to show?
Could be a cold shear - had them on the pr's last year near end of tire life Race compounds like the hot setting on warmers and they need a good soak before riding, I flip them on around 20-30min prior with the warmers on the tires in between sessions - ymmv But that tire looks fine, what rear cold pressure were you running?
