So I have reached a point in my riding where I feel like Im working my ass off to get my times down. Im in the I group and this is my second season doing track days on 600cc bikes. I have my tire warmers and have had my suspension set up. My best at Barber is 1:50 From what I have observed about my riding is that I hit the brakes pretty early in the braking markers, then coast , then start rolling on the gas somewhere before the apexes. The breaking problem I can figure out. However I am going to need some help with the "turn in" and "corner speed" aspects of going fast. Priority being the "turn in". So, can someone explain to me the proper technique of how to get the damn thing flicked over really quickly after comming off of the brakes? Im familiar with lite counter steering but not the extreme kind that I imagine will be needed. THANKS!!
Slow Down. yes, that's right! work on smooth, fast will come... yeah I know it's a cliche, but it's true. You're looking for fast in all the wrong places. while there's certainly a physical component to going fast, 90% of it is in your head. Judging from the photo in your avatar, you're not looking through the turn enough. look where you want to go, not where you're going. the further ahead you frame your field of vision, the less you are aware of how fast you're going and the faster you'll be able to go, ultimately. so far, we've got: 1. Slow down. >check 2. Work on smooth. >check 3.Look through the turns; look further down the track. >check The next weekend you go to the track, spend at least the first morning, if not the entire day, trying to put together a perfect lap. not a fast lap, but a good lap, where you don't make any mistakes. where you're smooth, you nail all of your braking points, your turn-ins, your apexes- one lap, two laps, a whole session. forget about fast for the time being, work on precision. grab a coach; perfect your lines. remember, this is supposed to be fun! don't forget that!!! then, one corner at a time, work on setting your corner speeds. from your description, it sounds like you're grabbing a whole lotta brake, then making up for that with the throttle. Instead, brake less, maintain a higher corner speed and get a better drive out of the corner- looking through the turn/farther down the track pays big dividends here. repeat steps 1-3. the next day, after you've been practicing steps 1-4, start pushing your brake markers back a little bit, on the gas a little longer, braking a little later. Still working on smooth; relaxed. Still looking through the corner. Still setting corner entry speeds. Still having fun. repeat steps 1-4. this sounds counter-intuitive, but my fastest laps always seem like I'm in slow motion. every time i've tried to go fast, i've gone slower; i've scared myself; i've crashed. I've put my lap timer away. I don't care- I'm out to have fun! good luck and be safe, Lance
There is np such thing as coasting....... and really no such thing as being "off" the brakes coming INTO a corner. if you can coast to an apex you can come in faster... trail brake... and get on the gas sooner. You absolutely 100% MUST master the art of trail braking if you want to go fast(er) and safer into corners. I trail brake all the way to every single apex in every single corner.. even if it's only slightly brusing the pads on the rotors. The difference between a good rider and a really good rider is that ability to apply 3,4 or 5% of available braking with a knee on the ground... Same thing with throttle.... Also.. you need to master weight distribution.. moving your weight on the pegs.. Takes time.. Don't try to go faster.. try to go better and smoother. Fast is a by-product of these.
I go into every corner thinking I'm going to die, pee a little, then hang off my bike REALLY far. (The pee helps you to slide on the seat)
alright to go off of this a little, somewhat related. mid ohio for an example, keyhole or carousel turns your pick. i will find my rp's and look through the turn and well down the track, but every now and then i notice my eyes, not my head glancing back every so slightly at the curbing and my line to make sure im still where im supposed to be. not a stare but just a quick glance. is this something i need to quit doing and just trust i won't go off if im looking down the track right or what or do you guys do it too?
Were you coasting through the keyhole, or did you keep power to the rear tire? Earlier in the day I was coasting through both corners and was not holding a very good line. And would at times be looking for the curbing. After two sessions I began gassing through the complete turn. I don’t mean pinning the throttle, I would make sure I entered the turn on the gas and would progressively add gas until the exit. This made the bike stable and the turn did not seem to take as much time to get through. If that makes any sense? Anyway, after this adjustment, I never looked for the curbing again; I just relied on my original rp's. I did this through both the keyhole and the carousel. Hope this helps.
yea that makes sense^ so i just gotta trust that i wont go off the track, on the inside that is. i feel like i was on the gas, but im sure i probably checked a little to much and ended up hurting it by going on and checking the throttle and going on and checking back and forth. trust is my issue right now.
Great stuff above and as Brian stated you should work on one thing at a time, be it braking points, turn in point, rolling on the throttle etc... This way, you'll understand what you're doing and the effect that it has on your completion of the corner. Just like with suspension, you wouldn't want to make a bunch of adjustments at once because you'll never know what component made it better or worse. Might also be good to take a track walk to better understand each corner. It gives you a "slow motion" opportunity to visualize how you're going to string the corners together.
this is exactly what they teach at Keith Code's superbikeschool.com. I'm a huge fan after attending his two day camp. Lookin and two step are great drills for matching corner speed with exit reference points.
Maybe have a coach tow you around a few laps and see what they are doing differently than you may be? Most of the barriers you're running into are all mental.
Once you make a mental note of what you need to accomplish (gigantic provided great info), there's nothing to say that you can't write on a piece of tape and tape it to your tank to have it as a reminder while you are out there. I had to do this when I switched to GP shift. And to add, you can always take one step at a time, hot pit, take the next step, hot pit, etc. If you try to do this all at once and can overwhelm yourself - just hot pit and gather yourself.
+1 what Gigantic said. I used to race MX and went to Gary Bailey's MX school twice. He said I will teach you how to ride fast by teaching you how to ride slow. It's not street oriented but the same applies. It's been more than a year since I did a track day and I hope do do at least a couple of weekends this year. The one weekend I did at CMP in 2010 was a blast. Day one, I rode slower all day and had the suspension set up for me at noon on. In the afternoon sessions, I felt more confident about how the bike handled. But you probably have that sorted. I purchased Sunday that next morning and rode most of the day, till about 3:30 or 4 PM. After Saturday's session, I felt a bit faster on Sunday, though there were still things to work on. Basically, on both days, I worked on smoothness more than speed. I have no idea what my lap times are and it's not super important for me to know. But I know to improve, I still need to work on smooth adn slowing down a bit will help.
Yep, I'll say it..."holy thread resurrection!" The OP was saying it back in 08 and I'll bet some are still saying it today...how can I go faster!
Get with an STT instructor before or after the riders meeting and USE them to your advantage. They are here for your improvement. You can use more than 1, don't be shy! Hope to see you improve at your first event.