How to get confidence?

Discussion in 'Riding FAQ' started by zenith931, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    Hi guys. I just did my first track day at Grattan on 7/31. I was in novice group and ran around following Cosy/Kozy most of the day.

    The biggest thing which kept me from keeping up with another group in novice or going faster was my own confidence. I kept having a little voice in my head telling me I was going to fast and I had to slow down.

    A lot of people are just telling me that the confidence would come with time. I thought I was getting there because I ride the bike almost every day two and from work. I go on longer rides just fine. Of course, that's all the street so it's slightly different.

    Is there anything I can do to gain some confidence so I can get a little faster or do a little better? We're hoping to do another track day in October at Grattan. I don't want to be the slowest person in my own group because of my confidence.

    Thanks for any suggestions!

    Nancy
     
  2. IL8APEX

    IL8APEX STT Northern *****er
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    Nancy-

    Can you be more specific about your lack of confidence? Is it a lack of confidence in braking before a corner, Lack of confidence in the tires at maximum lean, or lack of confidence in staying on track completing the corner? Perhaps none of the above and it's something else?

    We'll certainly try to help!

    -Tom
     
  3. on2wheels

    on2wheels Rides with no training wheels

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    Hang in there. This is slightly different, but I had a crash on track in Sept 2008 as a mid-pack Intermediate rider. I got back on track in 2009, but I was stuck running probably just a little slower than the average Intermediate rider all through 2009. First track day in 2010, and suddenly I was running around as one of the faster riders in "I" and now I will be moving up to the A group for my next track day. On the "breakthrough" day was concentrate on improving body position, then next session brake markers, then next session getting on the gas sooner and soon I found myself going faster than I ever had.

    So the lesson is sometimes it just takes time. Have patience, concentrate on doing things right and the speed will probably come. Try not to think about going fast or slow, concentrate on riding properly and usually the speed and confidence will come.

    I am sure the track coaches will have good advice for particular areas of concern for you. They are great resources.
     
  4. Justin.Chmielewski

    Justin.Chmielewski Rides with no training wheels
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    Nancy,

    You have touched upon one of the most difficult, if not impossible items to teach... the mental game. I believe it was Kenny Roberts who said "90% of riding is half mental". Maybe it was Keith Code through L Ron Hubbard.. but anyway...

    Yes, it comes with time, that is for sure... but additionally it comes from doing the right things each time. As in "perfect practice makes perfect". Concentrate on nailing the drills, and the very basics of riding, and the rest WILL come in time.. I promise.

    One thing stands out in what you said however that seems to me to be the first thing to work on. "your brain is telling you that you are going to fast" This tells me that your brain is overloading b/c information is being fed too fast for it to process. The way to cure this one is to look further down the track so your brain says "oh, this isnt so bad" Don't look so close that you cant react to what you see. Grattan is a diffiuclt track for this b/c it is so blind, but look where you want to be. EG: When at the apex of T1, try to find the entrance to turn 2. this will take you thru the exit of 1 and slow your mind down some.

    Hope this 1. makes sense, and 2. is helpful
     
  5. gigantic

    gigantic n00b

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    Justin Beat me to it. In coaching both Novice and Intermediate riders, I frequently encounter riders that appear to be "riding scared." Very often- 95% of the time, in fact, this is the result of the rider not looking far enough down the track or not looking through the corner.
    we bring with us to the track, a lot of bad habits from street riding that too often we struggle to get rid of in order to ride effectively at speed. Riding on the street, we learn to "look where we're going" that is, we scan the road immediately ahead of us, 50 feet or less, for obstacles: sand, potholes, cars- anything that might kill us. On the street, travelling at the speed limit, this makes perfect sense and is often quite valuable. on the track, where we might see speeds of up to 165 mph, it freaks us the hell out!

    The cliche that is often bandied about in track riding is "look where you want to go, not where you're going." looking way down the track reduces the amount of information coming to our brain, relegating the objects immediately around us to our periphery. This is good, because typically, there are few hazards of the sort that we might encounter on the road- there is little unexpected that we might encounter so we can focus our brain energy on what's ahead, rather than what we're doing at that very moment. This also reduces our perception of speed, considerably. If you look at any on track photo of a rider going through a corner, invariably the rider is not looking at what's in front of her or him, they're looking at the exit of the corner and mentally preparing for the following corner. Take may avatar as an example. This is the key to confidence on the track: look far down the track on the straights and look through the corners. practice this one skill and your confidence will develop exponentially, I promise.
     
  6. Gunshow Nick

    Gunshow Nick Northern Director

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    First, more track saddle time

    Second, don't worry about fast and focus on technique(s)

    Third, simply enjoy being on the track. Dont over stress yourself about it. Just have fun.
     
  7. Justin.Chmielewski

    Justin.Chmielewski Rides with no training wheels
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    Of course.. Lance has to go all high brow w/ the write up on looking thru corners. :roll:


    All kidding aside, he is dead on... slow the information down, and you slow down the perceived speed, which calms the panic. Take a peek at photos from any advanced session. i recommend a light blue #220.. look how far ahead he looks compared to track direction. This is for a reason.

    Nick also has a valid point.. have fun first.. then watch as speed comes. But then again... he's old and slow. :wink:
     
  8. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    I guess I might have to say it's the lack of confidence in entering or braking before a turn. I think I need to slow down a lot more than I know (or at least see from others) is necessary. Before almost every turn that has a straight (however small, T1, T2 and T3 at GRattan come to mind), I slow down a ton. There's a point where I think I can enter the corner, but I freak myself out and think I need to brake more. So I'm almost stopped before turning. Then I'm not rolling on the power enough.

    At "the bowl" at Grattan (the one after the esses, the heavily banked one), I'll look all the way past my track out point up to the hill where the straight/sweeper is and I see in my peripheral I'm getting really close to the inside edge of the turn. So I panic again.

    I guess I had looking through the corners down, but I don't. Case in point, I rode to work today and on the ride back, I took a turn I'm usually pretty slow on. I looked way down the road I was turning onto and it all felt perfect. I was still slow, but if I did that each time I'd probably be faster.

    It's not the lean, though. I don't really pay much attention to that besides a few times on long sweepers seeing out my peripheral and going, "cool!" :lol:

    Justin - thanks for all the help. I think the quote you're looking for came from Keith Code. :wink: I've read his books, but reading and knowing isn't the same as doing.

    I saw some of the pics the photographer took of me and I looked SO stiff. Admittedly, it was early in the day so maybe I relaxed some later on? Anyhow, I guess I should stop being concerned with me being the slowest out there. I was just hoping to keep up with some people instead of being in my own group because I was so slow.
     
  9. Gunshow Nick

    Gunshow Nick Northern Director

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    I miss you too Justine.
     
  10. Justin.Chmielewski

    Justin.Chmielewski Rides with no training wheels
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    Its ok.. I may have youth and good looks, but you still have the guns. :D

    You gonna be at trackfest?
     
  11. twilkinson3

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    Just keep practicing - speed comes with time patience and practice - hurts less too if you slowly approach your skill limits rather than overrunning them (crunch...) and those limits will slowly over time increase.

    Always remember one thing - they tell us racers this at our license day - 2% of the US rides motorcycles, of that 2% only 2% race them - pretty small crowd and while the track day crowd is definitely larger than the racer crowd it's still a pretty small percentage overall so just being there and working toward your own goals is a huge thing.

    So don't worry about being the slowest or any such thing - you are already in a pretty rarified crowd, have fun and only push the limits a little at a time (definitely use the coaches they need more work - especially nick...)
     
  12. IL8APEX

    IL8APEX STT Northern *****er
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    Nancy- Each of our drills, as goofy as they may seem, is designed to enhance a particular skill essential to getting around the track quickly. The 'no brakes' or 'single gear' drill is intended to help you feel how the throttle steers the bike, but it can also help you get used to increasing your corner entry speed. Next time you're at the track pay special attention to this drill.

    You might also consider asking an instructor to do a 'two up' session next time at the track. This will help to overcome the fear of entering corners with too much speed by recalibrating your perception.

    Whatever you do, don't get discouraged. None of us went straight from the dealer's showroom to the advanced group!

    -Tom
     
  13. DJ Baker

    DJ Baker Rides with no training wheels

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    Being on the gas from the turn in point & accelerating through the turns is key. Having good reference points & looking down the track as far as possible will promote proper throttle control. Think slow in & fast out, & remember that the throttle is your best friend.
     
  14. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    I think riding two-up with someone would be really valuable. I've never ridden as a passenger, though. I'd be afraid of tensing up or trying to straighten out of a lean and making the rider/driver of the bike mess up or something.

    I've been working on looking further ahead. It helps in turns, but there aren't many great turns on the street. :cry: I guess it's good that I plan on going back to the track!

    That little voice which keeps crying about being too fast just needs to shut up! :D
     
  15. mike.graham

    mike.graham Rides with no training wheels

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    I was waiting for someone to mention RP's. Thanks, Dennis. Having good reference points will instill confidence. When you know where you are and where you're going, you will have the confidence to twist the throttle knowing exactly what the results will be.

    You're getting some awesome advice here from some very good riders. It's alot to think about. Try not to overload your brain. Pick one or two things to work on the next time you come out, and focus on those.
     
  16. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    Thanks for all the help! You guys offer much better advice than my friends on other forums. They're all focusing on body positioning. I didn't think that was the problem!

    I'm hoping to get back out to Grattan with you guys in October. I know I'm still going to be bothered by being the slowest, but I'm going to just focus on myself. I'll probably be focusing on looking as far ahead as I can and rolling on the throttle a touch more in the corner to settle everything and make it feel stable.

    In looking far ahead, how far ahead is it? I was looking from entrance to apex, to exit, to next apex, etc. Am I correct in thinking I should be looking for the next turn enterance at the apex?
     
  17. Justin.Chmielewski

    Justin.Chmielewski Rides with no training wheels
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    That is a tough question to answer b/c its different for everyone. That is where reference points come in. For instance, when I exit turn turn 1, i dont look for turn 2, I look for a deer blind beyond T2 because i can see that before I actually see t2. When I exit 2, I dont look for T3, I look for the top of a portajohn on the motocross track.. I know that if i find it, I am headed toward T3. As soon as i turn into 3, I am looking for the "turn in" cone for T4 (left side of track, up the hill) then looking for Jig lurking in the trees.

    Its not always as straight forward as entry, apex, exit. ESPECIALLY at a track like Grattan where everything is blind. If you wait till you see any of those, its often too late and speed is lost. Its important to use a RP that gets you from point A to B but may not have anything to do w/ the track surface itself. Often you have to look toward the area you know you need to be, but not at the track itself.

    Make sense? All of this takes time to develop. Dont be shy about picking instructor's brains (or what is left of them) We are more than happy to help, at any speed at any time!
     
  18. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    I just signed up for the novice group at Grattan for Oct 16th. I've been using my bike for commuting everyday for the past month almost. Hopefully I can have a little more confidence come October! It'll be a good way to send the good weather off and put the bike away for the winter.
     
  19. jigmoore

    jigmoore Guest

    if you've come from street riding to track riding....reference points will be a very foreign concept to you.

    i spent 20 years riding street before trackdays and then racing. i STILL battle finding reference points on the track. i still fall back into riding like a street rider.....looking too close in front of me for sand, dirt, danger, etc...just guessing at braking and turn-in points.....taking defensive lines to allow runoff room....
     
  20. zenith931

    zenith931 Rides with no training wheels

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    Jigmoore, thanks for your comments. It really is pretty tough going from street to track. I was having confidence issues on one turn on my route home from work. I decided that I needed to stop obsessing over the bumps mid-turn and just take the turn like I should, so I was focusing on my exit point. It was SO hard to stop scanning the road ahead for roadkill, gravel, etc.

    I've been working on my body positioning, even though I know it's an advanced topic. But the bike feels so much more planted and secure when I'm scootching a buttcheek off.

    I'm nervous for another track day, but I'm hoping I can at least be a little more confident, a little faster and keep up with a group instead of being so slow to be in one of my own. :oops:
     

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