Is it safe to attempt max lean angle with maintenance throttle or neutral throttle (or whatever your term may be for the throttle where your bike neither speeds up nor slows down). My cunundrum is simply this....I have become lean angle averse (LAA) a terrible disease associated with middle age and multiple crashes. I'm thinking I can overcome this terrible syndrome by hitting a parking lot and doing the dreaded 20 foot circles. My plan is to lean the bike over gradually and then add a bit of maintenance throttle for stability and then gradually add a bit more lean angle until I scare myself (which usually results in a girly scream) or achieve, hopefully, more confidence in my lean angle. I dunno why I have suddenly developed this LAA but at Barber this last weekend I suddenly found myself completely uncomfortable in the slower high lean angle turns (turn 5). I was comfortably turning 1:49's last year and this year I was working to get to the mid 50's. Does this sound like a reasonable plan?
1) Someone might complain about you doing risky things on their property - if you clear it in advance that might be one thing 2) make sure the lot is fairly flat if you do go to it 3) I think you can get to nearly max lean in short spurts at as little as 25mph.....not sure tho.... 4) check out the riding faqs forum there was a good write up on cornering in a recent lap time related thread by Gigantic
I feel your pain, I'm way off my game this year myself. The parking lot thing IMO is a bad idea. Grab and coach and tell him your issue at the next trackday.
Would it not be safer to explore lean angle "walls" at 25 mph than at track speeds? I don't see where it is unsafe. Could you not easily drag a knee in 2nd gear on a 20 foot circle? At least one school is based on this premise.
If you practice cornering low at 25 MPH in a circle in a parking lot, you'll be able to corner low at 25 MPH, in a circle on a parking lot. You'll also get dizzy. How often do you encounter 25 MPH circle corners at the track? Best to practice at the track, on the appropriate environment, with a knowledgeable instructor. Better to practice setting up your turn, hitting your entry speeds, the proper line, rolling back on the throttle, etc. In the environment that is safest, the racetrack. The process of going through a corner on the track is a complex one, with many skills and variables at play; isolating it to going slow on a circle will teach you little, other than how to ride slowly in a circle. I'm not even going to mention the myriad dangers at play in a parking lot: paint lines, potholes, oil slicks, sealer, gravel, traffic, security guards and cops, etc. Oh, wait,I just did. If you want to learn how to improve your riding at speed, on a racetrack, a racetrack is the best, safest and most appropriate environment to practice.
Do more track days and get a tow from a coach....I am old and fearful and if I get a tow and see the guy dragging his knee while riding with one hand and looking backwards at me smiling then I "believe" I can make porbably make the turn too! Getting a fellow to tow you around and slowly increasing the pace is always what worked for me. Good luck!
Max lean angle is when you fall. :lol: Seriously, it should be a result, not a goal. Good advice above, grab a coach and have at it.
gotta TRUST the tires also!! that was the hardest for me, being an old dirtguy/MX'r, usually there was a berm,tree,fence, something to bounce off of and make the front stick, but, as we all know, the only berms here are the pretty curbs, bad idea... so, it took awhile for me to trust the SV to stick when asked to, then, i put some Conti RoadAttacks on it, i saw the light!!! and as someone already stated, you can get full/max lean at low speeds, ie the Dragon, a lot of those corners are maybe 35mph max[well, not for the insane...] and before ya know it, yer there.. lean angle and body position go hand in hand, that said, i've scraped a peg a time or two, drag toes to..but, knee out, to me, is more a balance/feeler than anything else, i don't think i'm strong enough to 'save it' at that angle with a knee 'dab' i HAVE saved it a couple times with a foot 'dab' tho' lol.. as in MotoGP, kicking the leg out on entry is more for a 'feel' as anything, knee down is max angle for you, toes touch/peg scrapes max angle for me... IMHO... 8)
These are great questions. Yes.. I always wonder how far you an take the bike down before it just slides out, or do you get any warning. This bugs the heck out of me as I don't want to find out the hard way. I know these modern tires will do more then most of us are capable of. Can pony up, and tell me your examples of slide outs and whats caused it. -G
well, usually i/we run out of... a:tire b:brains c:bawls d:skill my 1st was tire related..on my 1st trip to NKY with my SV, felt the front start to go[just like a dirtbike] but, i 'dabbed and drug' my foot, just like a dirtbike squaring off a corner... stk SV tires sucketh!! but, when i spunout at Putnam[bus stop] i was about 10ft PAST the exit, BUT, i think i was in 2nd instead of 3rd, had just come up the inside on some slower traffic, hard braking etc, gassed it like i had done the whole day.. i didn't think SV's had that kinda powa!! lol
I don't mean to hijack but this is somewhat related to the OP question. How does tire flex feel versus a tire slipping? I have been real low (for me) and as I got lower the rear tire felt like it was slipping but deep in my mind I didn't think it was. I say that because the tires were in good condition, proper heat and PSI and the road was clear of oil, sand etc... I feel that my speed and BP was pretty good but just my inexperience could not compute what was going on with the tire... ETA this feeling with the rear tire caused me to pull her up straight and effected my confidence. The front feels planted and neutral.
@gs.... On a sv you are out of lean angle on race dots when the footpeg and/or muffler makes contact with the asphalt lol For the slipping question....suspension plays a big role in how the bike feels whether straight up and down braking or leaned over - did it feel loose when you were getting on the gas by chance? If it did you might have been simply applying too much throttle too quickly for that lean angle/tire/suspension combo and it was letting you know it was about at the limit of your setup.
No, loose isn't what I would describe. It felt is if the tire was slipping as I got closer to the edge. I don't think I was applying too much throttle as I wasn't going that fast through the turn and I was maintaining the throttle pretty steady. From what I watched on sportbikewrench (Dave Moss), my bike is pretty much set up for weight stock. I dunno, maybe it is a set up problem....