Hi everyone! I am looking into going to my first bike track day at Grattan. I've gone there multiple times for HPDEs with my car, so I am very familiar with the track. I'm thinking that would be beneficial for my first bike track day, am I correct? Also, I am fairly new to riding. I've been riding for maybe 4 months on an R6s. I wrecked it when I stared at the side of the road in a very familiar curve -- I'm sure you can guess what happened there! Many people from the r6-forum and the dealer suggested I take a track day to improve my skills and confidence. After reading the requirements here, I wonder if my skills are not up to par? I ride fine alone, on streets, traffic, etc. I have never been on the highway, though. Am I experienced enough? Also, I've gotten the impression that Novice track days sell out quickly. About how far in advance do they sell out? Once I get a new bike, I was hoping to take the soonest track day at Grattan I could find. Also, how slow does the Novice group go? I know the first time out I'll likely be almost shaking with nervousness. Someone told me some places go a steady speed with no gear changes and minimal braking the first times out. Is that the theme here? What is it like as a newbie? Thanks for any help you can give me!
Zenith- First things first: The only thing riding a car at Grattan will tell you is which direction it goes. You will learn things about Grattan on a motorcycle that you will NEVER see in a car! Truthfully, it will open your eyes. I learned Grattan on two wheels and was surprised at how "dumbed down" it is in a car. After your motorcycle experience you'll impress all your car buddies with your track knowledge! Don't worry about your motorcycle skillset or your speed: basic riding skills will get you through the Novice sessions, and one of the six groups will be fast enough, we promise. There are always enough groups so you can move up or down if you're slower or faster than the others. As for signing up, please do so as early as you can. If events are sold out you can always check the "events for sale / trade" section here on the forums. Welcome, you're in the right place! -Tom
Tom, Thanks for the words of encouragement! I was only implying that being on Grattan previously will mean that I don't need to remember every corner and what it does. I know the lines will be different between two wheels and four, but I was hoping at least being familiar with the track and the environment might help a bit. I'm glad to know that my inexperience won't be a factor on the track! I want to learn how to be a more skilled rider as soon as I can and not have to wait for more time on the street. That's more time that my poor skills could cost me! I will be sure to enroll for a track day as soon as I get a bike! My boyfriend is very interested in participating with his Buell! Nancy
Nancy- Steal the boyfriend's Buell and come join us, you won't regret it! Oh, and did you do a full HDPE in the clockwise direction or the "half lap" autocross counter-clockwise? I love the bowl turn in a car. The thing just wants to dig in all the way around! -Tom
Ha! The boyfriend won't let me look at his Buell wrong much less get on it! That's ok, I just got approval from my credit union about an 08 CBR I had been looking at!! I've done two HDPEs and one open track day at Grattan with my 07 Civic Si. Both were the entire track and two of those days were very very wet. All the turns after the jump were flooded and it was a strange, controlled hydroplane through them. The bowl is great and a nice, easy turn. The carousel and the hairpin are the ones which gave me the most trouble. The carousel because there are multiple lines depending on FWD or RWD cars and wet or dry. And I disliked the hairpin because I never felt like I was carrying enough speed through them. :x Want to settle a score? The boyfriend is claiming that a bike can out-brake and out-turn a car. I will give that a bike has a LOT less weight to worry about, but a car has much bigger and more contact patches over a bike. I think it really depends on the bike or the car. What do you think? Nancy
a 'sporty' car will out brake and hold a corner better than a bike. You're right - lots more rubber on the ground = more grip for braking and turning. Bikes primarily make up time in acceleration zones where the weight advantage really makes a difference. now how "sporty" does a car have to be to be faster than a bike through a given corner? that, I'm not sure of. A miata is 'sporty,' but clearly not as serious as a lotus, or as powerful as a corvette. whether a car or bike turns a faster LAP at a given track depends 100% on the layout (and the rider ). If the track is all high-speed sweepers where the car never has to really slow down, the car will turn a faster lap. If it's multiple instances of tight turn, then straight, that will favor acceleration, and the bike likely wins. but dollar-for-dollar, bikes win every time. A $13k bike will out-perform cars four to ten times as expensive.
Oh, and because you're right, be careful when you pick up the pace on a bike. I did some laps in a car on a track I've ridden a bunch, and the instructor kept telling me, "you're braking way too early." If you're coming from a car, the opposite effect could make for a very short and un-fun day!
thanks for the concerns! I have a feeling you won't need to worry too much -- I'll be so nervous on the bike on the track the first time I'll be so slow I won't need to brake, but I will anyway, and will brake probably halfway down the front straight I'll be that early. There's no worry of falling over in a car, so the confidence is more easily gained there than on two wheels!
I'm gonna need to hear the relax part about 500 more times on the track day and right as I'm gearing up to go out the first few times! I'm usually pretty smooth on the brakes. I've never jammed on them so hard. Throttle I'm ok with. The R6's throttle response was a little jumpy -- especially in first or second. Hopefully my new bike will be a little smoother -- or I'll be smoother. Why aren't there track days at Waterford Hills? It's a nice, tight track with no crazy turns like the jump, no off-cambers, nothing blind... Good beginner's track!
Waterford hills as a ton of armco & serious lack of runoff issues. It isnt even remotely safe for bikes.
[/quote]Waterford hills as a ton of armco & serious lack of runoff issues. It isnt even remotely safe for bikes.[/quote] was a blast on the supermoto bikes. 8) :wink: :!: ski
awwww come on lance, you know you like them, in a hillbilly roadracer manlove kinda way. :wink: my avatar is actually take at waterford hills over the huge urbancross table top. lots of air time. if geared right, they are just as fast laptimewise as most 600cc bikes (in the right hands of course). and you can take them off of some sweet jumps too. :shock: i always thought grattan was made for supermoto, turn right into the infield about half way down the front straight, with a motocross style dirt section, a huge do or die double over the pond, and put us back on the asphalt just after turn 3. sam has the track and the dirt building skills to make it happen. like kevin costner, build it and they will come! ski
your bf is wrong. look at lap times on tracks that run formula 1 and moto gp. track records are almost half a minute apart at some tracks; the formula 1 cars simply run away with it. be safe... s3aturnr
mostly because waterford hills is dangerous as all hell. even in a car, it's no joke. that track can ruin your day quick. think about what big bend would do to you if you fell over at about 90+mph and hit the tires. hilltop is blind, but plenty of room. also, right after the back straight, there's a short chute before the big right and the esses. it points right at a concrete wall. there's just too much to hit out there. when i go out there with my car, i only run at about 80%. of all the tracks i've been to, i've had the most "oh-shit!" moments at waterford. have you seen anyone hit the wall there? wow! what a mess that creates. do i know you? you don't run detroit region scca autocross, do you? s3aturnr
I doubt you know me. I run with the BMW club, mostly. I'll be branching out to run with the Lotus club this season -- it's great how welcoming car clubs are -- even when you don't own their car type! They probably just see me as another car to pass! That's ok, I still have a blast and learn a ton. Amazingly, all the "oh shit" moments I've had have been at Grattan! Hydroplaning, skidding like crazy, running off the track, etc. I've never had an issue at Waterford, but maybe that's because you can't build up as much speed there since it's a small track. I'm taking delivery of my new bike this Sat! I'll need to get some better pants than my jeans, then I'll see you guys at the next track day! Nancy
If you want a nice easy to learn track come to one of the Autobahn North days in IL - nice easy flowing track, 1 decreasing radius corner, one hairpin, and one double apex corner and that's about all she wrote except the chicane they call turns 4 and 5 hehe (it's not 2 turns I swear it's one big monster chicane lol)
i know a girl that runs a beemer and was at all the waterford events that i was at for a long time. her name is Kristen (or Kirsten, not really sure how she spells it) and last time i was there, she shortened her wheelbase a little on the concrete barrier that protects the workers in swamp-corner. it was a blue 3-series, maybe around 2000-2003 model year, i think (i'm not so good with model years). i've heard she's replaced it with an m3, but i haven't been out to any events in awhile. anyway, be safe out there. go at your own pace, stay within your comfort zone and let your body relax to let the bike move under you. there are lots of friendly people out there who are willing to help. you are guaranteed to have a good time... s3aturnr