Kath I can understand liking the old bikes. In my opinion it would be better to show up at a vintage race where you can see them run and even talk with the owners. We seem to forget how nasty (or rough) the old days really were. About Nate, it seems he's a real racer. That is, he'll do whatever it takes to get on the track with no or little regard to the consequences. There are quite a few people like that in the club racing ranks. Unfortunately our society doesn't view maturity as a possitive and it seems that fewer and fewer people are maturing past adolescence. i.e. this country is full of 20, 30, 40, 50+ year old selfish children.
First off...Mike...DO bring your 900SS to Summit...it'll be the most special bike there, and we want to hear it go!! Besides, I thought you had room for both bikes on your trailer...! Walter, agreed on points one, two and three... I would love to catch an ahrma race one of these days, but for now to get our vintage fix Peter and I usually cruise up to the Vintage car races at Limerock Park which is held every Labor Day weekend...it's a nice way to see some beautiful old racecars, from 40's Morgans and Bugati's to 70's Ferraris, Ford GTs and retired LeMans cars negotiate that twisty and scenic spectators track. Sometimes we ride the bikes up (it's a very pretty 2+ hr. ride), and on occasion we take the van to carry more stuff, so we can lay out a nice simple spread, cheese, a bottle of wine, etc. on the grassy hill that overlooks turns 1, 2 and 3 . A great way to spend a late summer day. The Limerock Vintage festival is another place where if you poke around slowly enough, you're bound to end up in conversation with someone who's driving a Ferrari that John Surtees drove in the LeMans series, or running into an old guy who raced in Daytona when it ran on the beach, sitting alongside the car he raced it in. Last year we missed a chance to chat with Chris Economaki by ten minutes (another darn!), but I got Pete his autographed autobiography anyway... kath
Kath, That is something I haven't yet done in person. ESPN used to cover the vintage "races". I use the quotations because this wasn't true racing but a demonstration. Safety at Lime Rock has improved a lot too. I was reminded how difficult vintage vehicles used to be just this Sunday when the battery in my antique Mustang blew up. The battery is just like the ones made in 1966 and I needed to charge the battery to get the car to start. Back then it was required that the fluid level of the battery be checked at least once a month and if needed add distilled water. Well, I was lazy and since it was only 2? months since I last drove the car and I had disconnected the battery when I got home, I just put the charger on slow charge (6 amp) and let it go. That was about 12 noon. When I went out to the garage that evening, it must have been 10 pm, and turned the key to start the car. KABOOM. It seems the water level was below the plates and enough hydrogen must have built up in the case and there must have been a spark between one or more of the plates to light it up. This led me to jog my memory of some of the things I used to routinely to keep the car going which most cars don't need today. Change the points, condenser, cap, rotor, spark plugs, air and oil filter, fill the battery, check the tire pressure, check the brake linings (this with drum brakes which is that much more of a nuisance but they wore out quick back then), check the trans fluid and axle levels and I'm certain I'm forgetting some other stuff. The tires were all bias ply and if you haven't driven a car with these then you aren't missing anything. Cars didn't really go where you pointed them and the driver had to constantly correct the direction. Cars today are just so easy to drive in comparison. Nothing like today's. The tires didn?t last very long either. At least the Firestone Deluxe Champions, F-78/14, I had on my first Mustang didn?t last long. Somewhere around 10,000 miles before they were bald. I imagine the vintage bikes are similar. Nothing like today's. Today there are many cars where all you do is change the oil and filter regularly and at 100,000 miles replace the spark plugs. And, the car always seems to run well and start (unless the battery is dead which is rare with automatic headlight switches turning them off). Maintenance free batteries make checking fluid level a thing of the past too and I haven't heard of any maintenance free batteries blowing up. Not that it can't happen. Just looking at the vehicle at a show doesn't "remind" me of these. At that point its just an object to be admired. When I think on it more I consider what was happening in 1966? Vietnam was ON and the situation was growing. The race issue was growing too although that year it hadn't yet gotten to the worst it could be (depends on your view, the Watts Riot occured at the end of March). One could say it was a good year for me, because I was born, or it could be said it was bad for me because I was born. In Detroit the Horse Power wars were heating up which was good for car people. Shelby preped Mustangs (not the Mustang Cobra 350Rs) won the SCCA Trans-Am A-Sedan championship and Ford was going full tilt to beat Ferrari in Europe with the Ford GT-40, successfully too. The Cold War was anything but. The "Moon Program" was going full tilt. Unemployment was near 5%. So its not much different from today. Some good stuff some not so good and some downright bad. I wonder how much better bikes will be in 20 years?
Walt, 1966; The year I got my first motorcycle and my first job as a motorcycle mechanic. A 60 horse power production bike was a dream. As were brakes, suspension, sticky tires and real headlights. The helmet law had yet to be enacted. Most Italian bikes were a joke, Bobby would say they still are The bikes we thought were so good were in retrospect also junk. Life and business were less structured and regulated.
Yea, dinner was awesome, but to be honest, I've come to expect that when I'm dinign with New Yorkers, in New York. Was Meskerem the Ethiopian place, or is it a Morracan place. Uuuummmmm, Moracan! Last time I was in NY we met John and Eve for Turskish dinner on 3rd. Ave. That was some REALLY eatin! Yea, I don't know where Bobby gets off saying that it looked unfinished. That thing was put together better than the 1098s. I saw the early prototype at Launa this year, along with Caposori's GP bike, and the finished street one was far more polished. And how about the swingarm with cut outs for the giant exhaust pipe, exiting out the top of the tail? Pure art work! And I was never a fan of the street Demoducci this I saw this one. I didn't realize what a bargain it was till I saw the MV Agusta F4CC :shock: I was pretty impressed by BMWs line up. If I was in the market for a true streetbike, I would seriously consider one. Actually liked some of the non-boxer twin bikes, sorry, can't remember the names. I guess this new found attraction to BMW gets stronger as i get closer to 40! I wanted to mention that bike, but i completly forget the name of the bike, and didn't want to sound any more stupid than normal. That was a pretty cool piece of history! yea, that record didn't get a lot of play in the magazines. i thought it was a pretty big triumph for MV, but i think most magazines look at MV with the "it's expensive, it better be fast" kind of attitude.
Rich.... Dull paint (without depth) on ill fitting, wavy bodywork, and foam seats that are curling up at the edges are all standard fare on most race bikes, even some well worn factory machines, but a $65,000, production bike should be flawlessly finished, like the MV or an NR750. While it was no doubt the coolest production (sorry kiddies, but I'll take Rossi's M1 any day, 'cause if I don't like it I can always sell it, buy a dozen Desmodeci's, fix the bodywork, and carry a few of them to each track day in that super cool motor home!) bike in the world, it lacked the finish of most modern Ducati's that are a fraction of the price. It would have been far more beautiful to look at without the bodywork, as V4 motors have always been far superior to every other design, and the motor is the key to what makes that bike so special.
"as V4 motors have always been far superior to every other design" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Mike... Perhaps I should have said "in my opinion", but apparently Suzuki, Ducati, and Honda now agree, as when given the opportunity to build the most efficient, powerful, and reliable 4 stroke motor they can, they all chose a V4; only Yamaha and Kawasaki chose inline fours, and no one chose 2 or 3 cylinder powerplants. :wink:
Hello Bob, If you narrow your scope to the current Moto GP rules, you are probably correct. However, with racing we are always just a rule change away from some other configuration being the optimum for that rules package. Until this year it appeared the V5 was the best. A single is the best for motocross and lawnmowers. Superior in their application? Absolutely, until something changes. But I don't want one in my sport bike
Exactly.... Since we were talkin' bout a MotoGp "replica", a V4 is the current configuration of choice, and it's the one thing on the Desmodeci that makes it really unique, as most of it's cool parts are seen on almost every Super/MotoGp bike, and the birdcage frame is seen on every Ducati. As I said....the motor is what makes that machine so special, and would have been far more interesting to look at than the ill fitting, poorly painted bodywook that hid it from view.
I agree, the v4 is what makes the bike special but so would any other non standard for Ducati engine configuration. What really caused my confusion, besides hitting my head too many times was the "have always been far superior" part. A bit of a stretch and superlative excess. Don't get me wrong. I like V4s and fives, along with inline fours and obviously V-twins. In fact the only configurations I don't like are singles and triples. The new triumph 6xx may change my mind on triples as it appears to be the first good one. In my opinion.
the desmosedici was cool but electrolysis, or just a general corroding of the magnesium, reared its ugly head where the steel(?) bolts met the mag side covers and who knows where else. what a shame. who wants a bike that gets eaten up just sitting there?
Engine constructors around the world agree that a V8 is the 'best' engine configuration. Note: 1955 MV 500cc V-8.As Mike mentioned the V4 is the configuration of choice because of the MotoGP rules. There is a huge (by GP standards) weight penalty when using more than 4 cylinders. In some form of auto racing the engine rules only stipulate the engine size limit with no "other rule" limiting the numbers of cylinders etc and most if not all players choose a V8. Some include Ford (Cosworth), GM (Ilmor), Toyota, Honda, and some others I currently forget. Fred, I hear you. The magnesium needs to be coated to prevent the electrolytic corrosion, just as aerospace parts are. P.S. Honda did the V5 for the RC211V because they felt 5 was better than 4 and the rules didn't penalize a 5 over a 4. They chose a 4 for the RC212V (988cc) because cutting off one cylinder of the RC211V gave them (792cc) or just in the rules 800cc and they didn't feel the 5th cylinder would offer signifacantly more performance. (Don't forget there's a maximum fuel load rule too. Currently 22 L? ) Basically, they already have the engine. Little to no development cost. Just keep tuning.
Magnesium looks kool but engine covers seem like the perfect place for plastics, though I'm sure many would find it tough to except.
I agree with you Mike. Some aftermarket auto manufacturers make plastic valve covers. I find it funny how many people take perfectly good and light stamped steel covers off just to replace them with heavy cast aluminum ones. I guess its all in the bling? :? :roll:
Walt, In the bad old days, stamped steel covers were far from good. The gaskets now have spacers at the screw holes to keep us from crushing the gaskets and bending the gasket flanges on the covers. Before that; tighten according to specs, they leaked, tighten tighter, they leaked worse, get new covers, tighten to specs, no leak for few days, then they leaked. :?
Funny, My 66 Mustang doesn't do that and that's with cork gaskets (nor do any of the cars I've restored). But I do make sure the flange is flat because someone in the past over tightened them and bent the bolt hole area too far, to the point the only area "working" is that around the bolt. If you had old Chevy's I could understand "always leaks". In the same place Chevy uses 4 bolts Ford uses 6 or 8. One engine I worked on had the cover bolts tighted to the point the cover was split behind the bolt/washer and was only noticeable once removed and cleaned. These would have leaked no matter what was done, that is until replaced or welded and ground smooth. I've seen carbon fiber covers recently too.