Sand bagging?

Yes there is Sand Bagging going on from time to time. I have seen no problem with it, a lot of times a rider stays in Nov or Int longer than nessesary but not just to be Sand Bagging but to build confidence before taking that step up to the faster class.

We all know the only way to get faster is to ride with faster riders, however, this sport of ours is about fun, not just going fast, so if you are having fun at the top of the Nov or Int class, well then I see nothing wrong with that.

 

I've been sandbagging for years! I'm actually faster than Jake...............


Whoops, what I meant is that I'm OLDER than Jake........actually, I'm older than Jake's parents!

 

That shits funny there... TRUE but funny....

 

I would say it all depends on how the sandbagger rides and how fast they ride. At some point the closing speeds can make the rider a danger to himself and others that are on the track with him. Also the lack of predictability of the other riders can become a bigger problem once you reach a certain pace as well.

So is sandbagging a little bit going to hurt? Probably not. When you get to the point that the only people passing you are control riders and maybe 1 other rider all day - it is most likely time to move up (provided you have the smoothness and predictability to move up as well).

jmho, but I have seen video and the first hand account of an accident that happened on track. The person "sandbagging" and I both feel was at least partially the result of not moving up when they should have. It resulted in an injury (somewhat serious, but I believe they have recovered), some bike damage, and some lost track time. Not fun for anyone involved.

 

If someone is riding an "A" pace in the "I" group they'll get bumped to "A". If they are riding an upper "I" pace but COULD run an "A" pace then that's ok. The first is an issue the second is not.

Also, if you're an "I" guy and nervous about going to the "A" group then have a coach go out with you to get your feet wet. I can't tell you the number of occasions an "I" rider that moved to the "A" group came to me and said they waited to long to bump up. Mind you, "A" isn't for everyone. Some simply like "I" or "N". Nothing says you have to bump with the exception I gave earlier.

 

Keep in mind that the people in "I" who are "sand bagging" might be in the right place, and the people accusing them of sand bagging might be registered in a group that's above their ability level.

I definitely don't mean to point fingers at anyone posting in this thread; just pointing out the possibility.

Someone accused me of "slumming it" in "I" group at Mid-Ohio because I was 7 seconds a lap faster than them. When I pointed out that there were plenty of guys in "A" who were more than 10 seconds a lap faster than me, they kind of ran out of arguments. Granted, one of those guys was Corey West on that particular day, but the fact is, I belonged in Intermediate.

I was doing 1:45's or so, and West was in the 29's or better... He wasn't the only AMA guy there either.

 

I've personally put "A" stickers over the "I" sticker on 4 different bikes at trackdays.

2 were buddies that were indeed sandbagging and I knew it... They were going 3 sec a lap faster by the end of the day and thanked me.

The other 2 were "usually A riders, but first time at the track" and were happy to make the move.

 

For those of us who are slow learners, it can help build up confidence to run at the top of the group for a few days instead of immediately bumping up to the next group. After almost 20 trackdays I finally found I am passing more than being passed, and I want to enjoy it a bit. I don't consider myself a sandbagger however, just a coward.

 

You're a sandbagger, just accept it. :lol: How is the knee?

There are also people riding in a slower group because there were no slots opened for their group!

 

The knee started to feel better after a couple of days, and a novice spot opened up at Barber with STT the following weekend, so I signed up. By the end of that day I had two ruined knees. A week and a half later they are almost back to normal, just a bit stiff and minor pain. It sucks getting older.

 

I can admit to some sand bagging. I stayed in Int so I could learn to pass more confidently. on2wheels said it spot on, there's a reason they have groups, just like in racing, common speeds and experience should stay together for safety. I tried moving up to A group and can do it sure, I'm not the slowest A group rider either, but here is my problem. I lacked confidence, and knowledge to ride in A group. I didnt think I was perdictable enough or consistent enough, blow a line or turn, or change lines without reason, your asking to get hurt in A group.

I think that's the biggest issue with STT personally. They have great information for Novice riders. Once your in Int. though your left to either ask, or learn at your own pace. Plus you have new riders that have never been to the track and riding in Int. I sure think they should have more open courses for int riders to learn things that will help safety, proper passing techniques, more advanced braking, corner exit strategy, etc. I think Im a perfect example, I sat in the back of the pack because I was afraid to pass someone, I didnt want to cause them to wreck due to my lack of experience. So yeah I think sand baggin occurs. STT, please dont think Im knocking you guys, your're a great group, just offering some suggestions on how to better the experience for riders as a whole.

Oh and sometimes people bump around just so they can make the track day. if Int. is full, they might sign up for N and plan to be bumped, not sure you'd call that sand bagging.

 

If it's a safety issue and someone needs to bump down then I assure you they will get bumped down. This isn't negotiable either

 

I will have to respectfully disagree, when I'm coaching Int. I'm on the lookout for folks to help out, that's why we're out there, not necessarily just to find people riding beyond their limit or police riders who are outside the rules. I would typically find two or more riders a session to follow and tow around, then have a chat afterwards to see if they understood what I was trying to show them. It's our duty to do this. Unfortunately you didn't experience that, perhaps you have been doing everything right and the coaches found other riders that required more help. Either way, I hope during your next event that you do.

 

which is exactly why allowing people to choose their group can lead to problems.

If I want to register in Novice, but it's full, I can just register in advanced and get bumped down. I've successfully gotten around the system, and simultaneously been unfair to the people who legitimately registered in Novice, and now have a group that's more crowded than it should be, because I had to be bumped down.

 

I never seen a novice guy do this ..... but if i ever did i would put him in the WALL!

 

then you'd just be breaking the rules too. Not really a solution.

 

I suppose your right .... hey i didnt say i wouldnt go fishing with the guy i just said come race day im putting him in the wall! lol sorry you set me up for that if your not familiar with the quote here ya go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_90tfqwXc0A