It's been an incident filled summer for you, hasn't it? Glad everyone was ok! Personally, I can't understand why anyone would ever be unimpressed with STT Southern, especially on their first outing with us if they took an active role in their own enjoyment. I mean, not only does Mark run the tightest ship I've seen (and I've seen a few, even on 4 wheels), but the instructors really do spend quality time with customers - even at the expense of quality with their wives/gf's! Buuuuuut, that's just me. {jack type = thread} Dviant.Photos = Upload (Complete) +1; Request = "Buy Stuff"; {/jack}
I just want to say the coaches were awesome at RA. I cant wait to do another southerm event. (even tho i ran novice)
Chances are you will see some familar faces no matter where you go (as long as you are in the Southern Region). Not every coach makes every event, but you will at least see 2-3 coaches you have seen in the past. Regardless of who is there, the curriculum and level of awesomeness is consistent.
DISTURBING This to me is disturbing and I hate to make waves. However how could this have happened? I often wonder to myself when I am riding along working on improving my riding skills why is it that TWO or THREE control riders just buzzed the crap out of me in the Intermidiate class. I understand these guys are racers and that they are FAST, hell, fast is an understatement at best but why TWO why sometimes THREE control riders, riding wheel to FREAKING wheel come flying by. At this point I ask myself, how with all the things going on in our head and the speed we are going how is it these guys are supposedly "Looking" to help or "Circulating" to find problem riders. To me this is true maybe 20% of the time. Let me explain. I am not picking on said coaches but some staff in general. Riding in the I class and doing several STT days I have seen it myself. Rider, yellow jersey, flying by, taking a small, slightly questionable line, only to be follwed by ANOTHER yellow jersey, flying by, knee down, on a DEFINITE unsafe line for nearby untrained riders. As I said this dosent happen every session. Most of the time I am okay with it. However shouldnt the control riders be actually looking for problem riders and not racing each other. How can you possibly calculate all the the things going on when your running 80% of your race pace passing all the riders in session. Shouldnt you be spending time riding behind the riders not buzzing them or flying by them, how could you study the quality of the riders brake points, body position, turn in point, maintenence throttle and exit when you spend ABSOLUTELY no time riding behind these riders. Please dont come back with the "ASK FOR HELP" answer. I do ask for help and get it EVERYTIME and it HELPS. However There are 30 riders in these sessions out there. THE CR's do need to slow it down a little and study the riders. To me I think they need to WORK harder(some do) to memorize that days riders and put themselves out there a little more. I know the format works. I am a beliver that STT is the best out there and you all have improved my skills as a street and track rider beyond belief. But this isnt about me. This is about VISUAL EVIDENCE that the CR's only slowed to pace when coming up on a slower rider not spending anytime behind them and then as soon as they can passing them and going on around the track in this fashon. The fact that a CR HITS another rider and then says "This is what happens when a guy misses a shift" BLOWS MY MIND. EVEN STT Teaches that its our own fault if something happens, THE RIDER is ALWAYS at fault. THE CR shouldnt be that close to another CR, if so why? The CR's Shouldnt be racing, they should be teaching. If not take off the Jersey and just run advanced, PLEASE. Sorry for the rant. I know if it happens to me again I will say something, I do pay attention at the riders meeting, I do ask for help, I know that If its not brought up that day at the track it does no good. Just my two cents. And I do appreciate all the CR's that spend time helping slower riders, then going back out on the track to try to improve on thier own times... it has to be extremely draining to do this all the time. Thanks!
Re: DISTURBING I agree 100%... This was something that never should have happened in this class.. Advanced is the session where we get to play and I take 100% advantage of it... I am glad this didn't turn out worst than what it was....Ben, have no fear... we are all commited as staff members to help 100% ...
We were nowhere NEAR racing for one. That was a moderate cruising pace. Two, there were 6 coaches, and 15 riders on track at the time. It was end of the day, HOT (103 degrees IIRC) and a lot of riders were giving up for the day. Not many riders went out. You see us pass about 6 riders total I think...... NONE of which where within the 6ft rule, and more often than not about double that distance. You dont want to hear the "ask us for help" answer, but that is exactly it. I cant count how many times I have tried to help a guy who didnt ask, only to be waved off by his ego thinking he doesnt need it. We are not mind readers, I dont know if you actually WANT my help or not. This was intermediate, not novice. I am much more apt to pick up random guys in novice than I group, and even less in A group (we do help in A group too if asked) The few guys we DID pass on the back straght, had a coach with them already....... if you look. We passed them about T9 going down hill with a WIDE berth. At this point we are more playing track police, than coaches. We were out to make sure nobody was doing dangerous stuff. Also keep in mind we can see farther than just right in front of us. The fisheye camera makes people look farther away once they get more than abouy 20ft out..... so there were other riders we could see as well. Chris was watching the guy all the way from T2, to T5........ how can you say we were not watching? The guy missed a shift and essentially stopped on track........ do we have a "following too close rule" on track now too? There is NO WAY to predict that a guy is going to lose all forward drive exiting a corner the way he did. I had nowhere to go. I was going the SAME SPEED he was...... I was not blitzing the guy, and neither was chris. I refuse to admit I did anything wrong in this video. Please, if you feel othewise, point out a time stamp where I broke any rules, or did anything questionable........ if Mark or Monte feels different, pleaser contact me (I know Mark has seen the video, and he has not said anything to me yet) It was an unfortunate track incident. We are not riding gods. ANY rider could have had the same happen. There was no closing speed issue here, or line selection, or blasting by the guy. We were behind him, going the same speed, and he lost forward drive.... and I had nowhere to go.
Correction, you see us pass THREE riders, the first we can see for half a lap ahead of us until the back stretch, second of which had a coach with him, third we could see brake into 10a and through 10b up until T11..... all of which were safe legal passes, then the incident happens. The guy I hit, we could see from about T1, until T5. You dont have to be up a guys tail pipe to see what he is doing. How is that NOT observing who we pass? I am truly baffled that people think I did anything wrong. The guy lost ALL forward drive with a false neutral, then a botched downshift to the wrong gear.
After a recent PM I got from someone....... lets go to fantasy land here (for those NESBA guys who are apparently lurking, and talking badly about this situation) I was not overtaking. I was FOLLOWING the guy. so lets say this happened mid straight. The guy just suddely SLAMMED the brakes. Would I have done something wrong then? Surely not. I was following the guy, and he slams the brakes, and I hit him. That is essentially what happened here. Was not his fault. Things happen. we all miss gears. I know I have. Was not my fault either. It was a track incident. Those sometimes happen. They are rare, but they do.
WOW!. Both are very lucky. I've heard folks say never follow the same line, this is certainly a case for that, but I also know when the visor is down it all changes. Glad both are OK.
"never" is a strong word. In certain areas of a track, at a certain pace being anywhere but the same line is just not very feasable. That is not the case here though. Just saying that advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt really At the pace we were running, I could have been off his line sure. I wasnt. I wish I was and maybe I would not have hit him. But I wasnt.
Totally agree man. Scary time for you. Glad all is well. Never ridden that track and want to, but I'll certainly be paying closer attention when I do. Can't wait for Barber 9/26 and 27!
I can honestly say I have never heard somebody say "never follow the same line"...and I frequent various motorcycle forums. :?: During a race, there might be 20+ bikes on the EXACT same line (during the first 1-2 laps, before things spread out). After that, it isn't uncommon to see 3-5 bikes on the exact same line. I am not saying it is the safest place to be, for obvious reasons...but like Joe said, sometimes there really is only 1 line and everyone is on it.
I seriously cannot believe the negative comments regarding this situation. What fantasy world do some people live in where incidents never happen on a race track? Like Joe said, we weren't racing or even playing. We were each running several seconds off of a "playing pace"...even more seconds off of a race pace. We had been following the guy for several turns, watching his lines and inputs; had he not lost all forward drive, we would have probably watched him longer. We went around him out of necessity. If we were passing on the outside of a corner and he lowsided into one of us...would it have been our fault? (that has happened to me before). Like Joe said, if he slammed on the brakes midway down the straight, would it have been our fault? You have to remember he lost all forward drive in an area where everyone is accelerating. It is one thing to get a false neutral pulling away from a red light where everyone is stopped....and an entirely different thing to hit a false neutral and basically stop while everyone is accelerating. The ones making the negative comments, at any given red light, if the light turned green and everyone took off in a hurry to get to work, then the guy directly in front of you suddenly stopped...how many of you wouldn't hit him? The incident was NOBODY's fault...it just happened. I have missed gears several times, we all have. Racers know what it is like to launch from a green flag and see someone sitting at a dead stop in front of you because his bike stalled for whatever reason. Nobody can predict everything. Sure, we can take precautions...that is why we have the 6' passing rule in Novice and Intermediate. I guess to make the track incident free and more "friendly", we should make the rules like this...."stay 10' away when passing", "do not pass with a speed differential of more than 15mph", "stay at least 50' back from the rider in front of you", "do not pass in any turn", "stay at least 5' away from the edge of the track at all times", "do not apply the throttle till the bike is completely upright", "trail braking is prohibited", tires must be new at the beginning of every weekend"....... Doesn't that sound ridiculous? The negative comments regardling this situation are just as ridiculous...
I have got to agree with Chaos and Joe on this one. This thread has got way out control. Things happen and we get through them. This is not ping pong we are playing out there. It is a fast and dangerous hobby we have. Safety is a big issue with our staff and we do everything possible not to cause any incidents but sometimes things just happen. In this case everyone was ok and even the guy that was bumped was ok with what happened. And as far as riding the same line I have never heard that you don't ride the same line. As a matter of fact in many sessions students are suppose to follow the instructor's line
i dont understand whats the big deal no one got hurt other than a little pride maybe? The biggest thing that bothers me here is it was not in beginner these intermediate guys are decently quick and ride rough at times i cant understand why people are having such a problem with even if you were not coaching at the time... has anyone ever had a good day where you were getting it done and wanted to ride like hell? but.....HERE IS MY #1 QUESTION HOW DO YOU GET FASTER IF YOU DONT FOLLOW SOMEONE WHO IS FASTER? an intermediate guy wanting to move up would have loved to got in behind and enjoy the tow! I KNOW I WOULD HAVE TRIED TO KEEP UP!