Sunday's flights

Hey guys,



Ben...thanks for reminding us of the post-lunch rider's meeting...I had forgotten about that tactic, and that's a good one to have in pocket for these kind of days. We could have benefitted from that on Sunday.



Just to address a particular point...I think rider identification is a huge obstacle to curbing some of the behavior that went on on Sunday. I myself found it incredibly difficult to memorize the various riders garb/helmets/bikes while on track who were well worthy of black flags and communicating those descriptions to Keith. They all start to look the same when you're standing on the starting grid and they're only 2 turns away...not only that, but you have to wait for them to come around to the front straight for a real positive ID and then you're stuck feeding the same description to all the cornerworkers...it too easily becomes a game of telephone.



I believe we will be reinstating numbers next season...this should help immensely. Being able to call a rider # out to the cornerworkers so everyone on radio (including registration) can hear it, brings potential problems to a quick settlement.



Finally, our track club is/was different because it was not just a place where you showed up to ride, it was a community of like minded riders. While REDUC/STT transitions to STT, we depend on the veterans of each to educate and help the new folks coming in...that means not just the control riders and registration, but everyone who rode by the rules and still has an interest in continuing safe track days.



As control riders in a format where more than half of us are absorbed by the novice school, we are outnumbered in the ability to prevent and deal with every instance of boneheaded behavior. We need all of you to take an interest in making the smooth transition and being vocal about when things are happening, either to registration/control, to a control rider, or if it can be handled in an appropriate manner, to the bonehead himself. We have many friends at this club who might have started off on the wrong foot, when all they needed was a bit of friendly education.



Remember, it takes a village to raise a track junkie!



:lol:



Kath

 

while I can't really comnment on Reduc, from my experience with other clubs and private track-days, STT, while being the 800# gorilla, is vastly different. what kept me coming back, time and time again was the welcoming, family-like atmosphere that is the hallmark of STT. I've found other clubs to be clique-ish, aloof, snobby, corporate minded & what have you. It's only at STT dates where I've shown up, by myself, and left at the end of the weekend with at least half a dozen new friends. -this happens at almost every STT event that I've attended, where I've made more friends than I can possibly remember names...

I also concur on the novice school; only because of the excellent instruction that I, a rider with absolutely zero natural talent, was able to learn this sport and make enough progress to become consistent and smooth. I was one of the few people who stayed back in novice instead of going straight to Intermediate and was far better prepared because of it. when I did finally make the jump to Intermediate, I was surprised both to find myself in the top 20% of riders and how slow and inconsistent the majority of the rest were. I'd say that close to half of the riders in the I group would benefit greatly from a little remedial instruction! I've noticed OTOH, that a certain midwest lead instructor has a very loyal following of riders in his novice group 1, who are as fast as anyone in the I group! this is a very positive development.

One other note for the non-control riders: if you see someone riding out of control, making dangerous passes, stunting of doing things that are unsafe, please report it to a Track Coach or STT Staff. this isn't about snitching, it's about making the enviornment as safe as possible for everyone. If a rider, who's been riding unsafely all day, takes out another rider (you or your pit-mates) in the afternoon, he's likely to get the benefit of the doubt if no-one has mentioned it to the staff previously. if you let the staff know, chances are that he'll be spoken to and given an opportunity to correct behavior/riding style- you've just saved him and others from a rather expensive chopper ride. This is key: let the staff know if you see unsafe riding!!!

 

I agree with Rich's suggestion as well.

 

Rich, good post. I agree. I didn't realize many novices at their first trackday then jumped to intermediate the next day. That would, however, explain a lot of the novice-looking lines during the Intermediate group at the FUSA day in August.

That being the case, then perhaps there should be a change like you suggested, or a novice school group, then a novice group for those that have already taken the school, then intermediate, then advanced. Just thinking off the top of my head here, but there needs to be some separation from those who really still belong in Novice, but have jumped to intermediate because they don't want to be "stuck" in the school all morning.

 

how about a merit program?

i have no idea how you would differentiate between the classes but if a rider wanted to advance, they have to prove their worth.

how to do that? again, i have no idea.



also, maybe a safety program of some sort? perhaps it could be part of the meritorious advancement program?



i know these ideas present an additional administrative load but if it amounts to a safer all around environment, why not?



naturally, it would require the rider's participation to advance but i think the reward would be more substantial than bragging rights. idealistically, instead of "i'm better/faster", the more advanced rider would be able to say, "i've proven my safety and knowledge. how can i help you achieve this level?"



any merit to this? :lol:

 

I think that there's considerable merit to a qualified advancement, but the way it was explained to me was that advancement at the rider's discretion/choice was a large part of the STT way. afterall, ideally speaking, who better than the individual rider knows when they're ready to move up? that said, it doesn't seem to take into account the enormous egos that often go hand in hand with riding sportbikes on the track -why do you think that there are ususally more liter bikes in novice/intermediate than in advanced? perhaps it may be time to consider that, but otoh, I've noticed a huge turnaround in the greatlakes/midwest this year compared to last without adding another layer of rules and red-tape; seemingly fewer crashes, fewer red flags. I don't know what made the difference, however: perhaps a greater emphasis on safety in the riders meeting, growing rider maturity, a greater willingness on the part of instructors to confront/talk/help riders who'd been showing problems or all of the above...

at this point, I'd like to see how a few more events go; I'd chalk it up to growing/transition pains. you can be sure that our conversation is being monitored and ideas taken into consideration. I'm very interested to see where things go from here.

Lance

 

I hope it's growing pains, too, and can be resolved. Reduc also allowed you to advance at your own discretion, and that worked out fine. I admittedly haven't been to a lot of days this year. I'd been riding Intermediate with Reduc for many years. I'm smooth and consistent, I just don't think my laptimes are fast enough for advanced. However, at the August FUSA event (I was riding Intermediate), I felt like I was in a Novice group. There were a lot of people taking really, really bad lines. They had no idea where they belonged, and I was very hesitant to pass them, as I had no idea where they were going to go next. Lots of parking in the corners and blasting down the straights, too. People, if someone is right behind you in a corner, let them by on the straight. Then follow them, you might just learn a thing or two.

 

I'm one of the slower riders in Intermediate, but I do feel comfortable in the group and don't feel over my head. Actually, being one of the slower ones in my group has been making me take a look at where I can improve. If I always stayed in Novice I would always feel like one of the faster ones and then how would that help me. I found out that sometimes getting passed can help you when you watch what they do. I've got 3 things that I'm going to strictly work on my next track day. I'm been thinking about it and it will benefit me.

I do think that the number requirement would be a good thing though. It would help out tremendously with identification. Knowing who the person is can always help. Not just in identifying "Stunta's", but what if someone get's knocked out cold and gets a hospitable ride. It would be nice to know who they were right away. Know what I mean.

 

Huh. I thought you were allowed to select your own group in Reduc. I don't recall otherwise. Maybe you had to have someone follow you if you wanted to move to advanced? And, I didn't imply that someone is a less of a rider if they're in novice or intermediate. All I meant is the difference in skill levels in intermediate seems even more diverse now, and your post about folks taking one track school and then jumping to intermediate may partly explain why.

Rich, how can you not have some sort of skill level attached with a group? I see what you're saying, but to advance you do need certain skills.

 

This was my first STT day (not my first track day), and I would agree with this. I could definitely benefit from taking the school again, as I thought it was excellent. But at some point I wouldn't mind doing a Novice group without the school. I mean teacher/control riders out with us would be excellent for sure, but maybe not with the follow the leader groups. I think I posted this before, but there were 2 such riders in the novice group that eventually got booted. I certainly wouldn't want to have to move up to intermediate to do this, at least not yet.



Another question, do we actually know what was causing most of the crashes ? Was it really a lot of bonehead riding or legitimate situations ( whatever that may be )? I know the high number of incidents indicates people over thier heads, but I wonder if thats the case or something else? The reason I ask, is because it would be easier to address the issues, if we were sure of the causes.



Anyway, as I've mentioned before, I would definitely do another novice day or two, as I did learn a lot and had a good time. After that first experience though, I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel trying intermediate.

 

all i can say is...





























sooner or later. :lol: