Thanks its just so hard to find a coolant with antifreeze properties that is accepted by multiple orgs. If i use engine ice i am ok with STT when i want to ride Barbers since its in my back yard but must change it if i ride with someone else. Guess the easy answer is only ride with STT lol.
Read this thread. Very informative. MacBandit works for Triumph. http://www.triumph675.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48418&highlight=water+wetter
Not everything is so simple. Making the trip from sub-freezing Michigan to Barber in March, what are you going to do? Too many early hotel mornings draining coolant with a bike/tools all loaded up.
Let me start by saying you can choose to believe this or not, it's your choice. Water wetter has ZERO water pump seal lube. Water wetter does not have the proper anti corrosion additives needed in most cooling systems. I would have said all, but I'm sure there are some somewhere where it's OK. You will just have to take my word on no lube. How much lube does a pump need depends on manufacture, model, materials and build tolerance. For anti-corrosion and can find out for yourself pretty easy. Put a steel bolt the proper mixture of water wetter & water and put one into a proper mixer for ethylene glycol & water also put one in plain water, a couple of weeks should be enough to see what happens. Now imagine if you let it sit for as long as you leave the coolant in your bike.
I forgot to add: Blue is the common color for ethylene glycol from Europe. For the most part there are 3 different ethylene glycol formulas because of area (government) requirements: North America, Europe & Japan. If you are interested in more info just do a google search.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10 The fact sheet would seem to conflict with you.
Yes. Those paranoid thoughts driving through 29-degree temps on my way to Barber with water in the radiator... and then running a space heater near the bike at the track while the night time lows were below 30. I'm just glad that Engine Ice is allowed.
This is what concerns me when going to Jennings next week from Chicago? So if I put in PEAK Sierra or LOW TOX(which are both green) will I pass tech even though they are both propelyne glycol?
My plan is to just never get out of Novice group. That way I don't have to worry about coolant. At least, thats my excuse for being in Novice
I have always found the coolant thing to be an interesting PITA. What's most interesting to me is all the hoopla over coolant and not as much concern about case guards. Is coolant really harder to clean up than engine oil? Certain bikes have really weak case covers that can crack open even in a low speed crash. No judgment here. Just generally inquisitive and wanting to perhaps learn something.
Bring the bike dry... I mean really, a bottle of ww is about 6 bucks and can do about 20 fills with a 90 cent gallon of distilled... I would drain my bike always on trips to and from the track... Not that uncommon..
Yes, actually, coolant is MUCH, MUCH harder to clean effectively than oil as I alluded to above. I can't give you the science behind it, and maybe Kozy can chime in here, but oil will adhere to "oil dry" products effectively and ultimately the surface will return to a safe level of grip relatively quickly. Ethyl-glycol based coolants will not adhere to oil dry in the same manner (why, I don't know) and leave an incredibly slick film on the racing surface that is nearly impossible to remove short of running a torch over it, or scrubbing it with a surfactant. If you talk to any corner worker they will tell you that oil is really not a big deal once it has been properly addressed, but coolant is a nightmare. Believe it or not, in many large spills, something similar to Dawn dish soap is used to clean the surface. FWIW, I agree with you on case guards. I think it is just a common sense addition to a bike. That being said, they are not required in track days in a compromise effort to reduce costs, yet create safety standards. Its a push-pull relationship.
You learn something new every day. Perception and reality are often quite different. I have spilled both oil and coolant making a mess of working on stuff. Oil seemed to stick around and be harder to get rid of but then again I don't ride the bikes down the driveway at high speed. I also did not have "minutes" to clean it up and the safety of a few hundred people to think about either.
That's true but here's something you might not be thinking about. Expensive bikes with factory warranty coverage tend to change what owners are willing to do or can do with their coolant options. On some of your more expensive machines the risk of a frozen engine or issues with the warranty are a huge concern.
And that is where the owners choice comes in. If they aren't willing or able to adhere to the rules then they don't need to put that bike on the track and endanger others. There is no reason for a frozen engine, even if running water all you have to do is keep an eye on the weather and drain it as necessary. On warranty coverage, if they are that picky the only thing they could possibly ding you on would be failure of a water pump, etc if they could prove the failure was caused by your choice of coolant. It is a rule that STT allows engine ice and other coolants and that is what it is. Personally I think all bikes should be running water and water wetter type additives (The actual WW, Motul MoCool, etc.) from a safety perspective. If a bike overheats it can push a significant amount of coolant out and the rider may not even be aware of it. An example would be a failing head gasket pressurizing the cooling system can almost empty a radiator in short order. Then you have coolant spread over a significant amount of real estate and a long cleanup time.
I agree with those points. I was just trying to point out some of the reasoning and logic that some owners might have. I'm just really glad that STT allows Engine Ice. It makes life a LOT easier.
So are other PG coolants ok to use for track days other than the ones listed (ex. Peak Sierra)? I use water/water wetter the rest of the year. I've never been down south though in the winter. I would like to have something in the bike that won't freeze in the trailer on the way down.
from the rule book.... Advanced and Intermediate group riders must use water, water wetter or a non-ethyl glycol based anti-freeze/coolant. Approved Poly Glycol brands are: Evans, 7th Gear, Liquid Performance, and Engine Ice. Automotive ethyl glycol based coolants are not allowed. if it isn't listed on the list, it is not approved nor authorized. if you want to get another brand qualified, this is not the forum to do it. contact Trevor, and he can run it by Richard, and or the Insurance provider for the tracks, and or stt. Ski
As a Tech inspector, who is responsible for each and every bike that I sign a sticker for, I can tell you this: IF you were to come to me and tell me you had some low-tox or poly-based product that was green, I wouldn't believe you, and you would not pass. Why? Because I can't instantly distinguish it from ethyl based products and, short of actually seeing you pour it in, I would not want to risk my job, or anyone else's safety on it. Like I said before, that isn't to say you aren't reliable or telling the truth. It is just an easy safeguard that is uniform. I have believed in what Kozy has been preaching for years, but the old adage "give em an inch" comes to play here and its just easier to err on the side of caution.