CSS or YCRS

Expensive? Yes, worth it? I think that Depends on the rider. I think that those that have had at least some track experience will get more value. Assumption being that you don't already have a lot of bad habits engrained and instead are building on a decent foundation. Obviously they can help with this too, but I have found the STT coaches do that well. It is just harder for them to give you as much personal time and very prescriptive advice as your instructor does at CSS.

IMHO, CSS is worth it. I like CSS over YCRS because of the 2-1 rider to instructor ratio I the 2-day camps. It really gives you personal attention tailored to your specific needs. The focus at YCRS is a bit different too. They really like to put a strong focus on trail braking.

 

This is all my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
First and foremost though, there is a lot of overlap between the two programs. Both are internationally renowned programs. They share MANY similar championship winning ideas. I will say though, that some of the things (a small percentage) that I've read from Keith Code seemed to be dangerously wrong.


Long personal opinion warning: :blah::fear:

My first race weekend I always felt on the edge, and eventually crashed out of my race. Lucky for me, the rider immediately behind me (for the entire race) had a helmet cam. He sent me the footage, which I was then fortunate enough to have Nick Ienatsch and Ken Hill review. Ever since then, they've been like personal coaches for me. Ever since speaking with Ken and Nick for a short while, I have NOT had any incidents at the track. My lap times have completely plummeted, and I feel like I'm nowhere near the limit yet. I'll even go as far as to say I haven't even had any dramatic moments. No almost highsides, no pushing of the front, or movement of the rear, (and I always lap in the rain). Those two guys literally are out with the intent to make you faster, but more importantly, SAFER. I can honestly say that talking to those two guys has been one of the best things I've done for myself. Not even just in riding, they have what they call "champions habbits" which have even made an impact on my driving, schoolwork, and other everyday activities. They actually just had Bradley Smith attend the school (when a MotoGP rider believes YCRS can make him faster..), and frequently have Scott Russel as a coach. Nick has spent time in places as far as Phillip Island working with guys like Kenny Roberts, working with his race engineers to analyze data traces. Not only do they have the insight from the older generation of champions, they also heavily embrace the new style of riding, the elbow down, hanging off style. They have the perfect ways of describing to you how you should go about achieving this style. They can explain to you exactly why the moto2 and motogp guys do what they do. After talking to them, you will never look at any racetrack the same. You start to think about every corner in terms of "maximizing what the corner has to offer". Sayings like "load the tire before you work the tire", and "Get it pointed, stood up, and fired" will be permanently engraved in your head. Everything these guys have told me has transformed my riding in ways I cant describe with words. It's almost a feeling, very hard to describe.

I'm scared to imagine the possibility of having gone my life not talking to those guys.

I guess as a closing note, leading up to the race where I felt on the edge, and ultimately crashed, I had been watching and reading TOTW religiously. I feel like some of the things I picked up from it had a negative impact on my riding. Most of what Keith and YCRS guys talk about is right on par, but some of the differences now seem very obvious and dangerous. Again though, this could all be attributed to my riding style and how I mentally interpret things. For me the YCRS philosophy works without question. There is always more than one way to skin a cat though right? :cheers:


$0.02

 

whoa now waitadamnminute.....

You cant just say you don't agree with some TOTW stuff and that it was dangerous for you and NOT tell us what it is!!?!?

Spill the beans man! What dont you like about TOTW?

 

Keith code Twist of The Wrist

 

Nick has a book for sale on their website as well. They say on the website that if you send them you vid they will critique it as well. I am going to buy the book.

http://fastersafer.bigcartel.com/product/sport-riding-techniques

FWIW- I have been to 6 trackdays and i have not met a bad STT coach yet. Dont know how STT finds them but they are great IMO. These guys gave me great help and advice Paul Hilpp, Brett, Larry, Vern, Marc and any other i asked for help.

 

flylikechris,
Please expand on the "dangerous" comment.

I found TOTW and the CSS to be VERY different things. Some basic concepts are the same, but the class is much more updated. TOTW came out a lifetime ago and it shows. TOTW 2 is more up to date but the class is much better than the books. I hope you are not basing your comparison between the books and taking the YCRS class.

I have not taken the YCRS class, I was an observer. I very much agree with all the positives you mention. Nick and Ken are awesome, have passion that is hard to beat and really know their stuff. Yes they have a different focus than CSS, but I was in need of more fundamentals. Both CSS and YCRS have produced some good young up and coming riders. Joe Roberts is from the CSS school and Caleb DeKeyrel from YCRS. I think there is value in both schools and certainly one may fit any given rider better than the other. "$1 worth of attention " and "100 points of traction" are two different focus areas but both are important.

 

Good book well worth the read!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

My experience with YCRS was similar to flylikechris'. I came back from the class significantly calmer, confident in my control of the bike, and this has resulted in steadily declining lap times and essentially no drama moments on the bike. This progress has continued for several years since my first go at YCRS.

The year prior to taking my first YCRS, I attended a CSS (Level 1 and 2), and it did improve my riding, but for whatever reasons (my personal shortcomings and fears most likely), the CSS class had nowhere near the impact on my riding that the YCRS class did.

That said, both schools provide value. Everyone is different, and different approaches work for different people and personalities. For me, Nick and Ken's style of teaching is more in tune with what I needed. I realize that the cost is frightening, especially the first time. In my case, it's been worth every penny. I have not come close to losing control or having an off since my first YCRS class in 2011, This while significantly lowering my average lap times, with some additional improvement each time out.

I hope to get into a YCRS class this year as well.

 

How much is it?

 

This is from their website https://ridelikeachampion.com/#menu-item-35 which also tells what kind of drills are down and a schedule. Looks like some of thar cost covers your meals and hotel. I would do it in a heartbeat if i had the funds.

What kind of money is this whole deal?
Our two-day schools are $2,495 and the three-day programs are $3,495. Tuition includes breakfast snacks and coffee, as well as dinner at the clubhouse and one or two nights in the at-track suites, depending on your program.

 

I don't know how they are gonna stay in business. First The limited number of people in our sport. Then from that group how many can afford to drop $2500 on a three day riding school? That's a whole season + of track time. Just my .02 but it may be the best school in the world but that price seems way out of line. That said if had unlimited funds I'd do it.

 

I have attended JDSA and YCRS...The good thing about YCRS is they go into depth explaining a technique in the class room, then you go to track side and they have one of the instructors demonstrate it on the track, and then they have you work on the technique. Their school (YCRS) has the entire track to themselves vs JDSA sharing the track with a track day org. Also YCRS does drills at specific parts of the track to help you work on that technique. YOu will stop on the track at times for instant feedback of your technique. I was fortunate to have Scott Russell as an instructor with only one other rider for an entire day! Well worth the $'s.
JDSA was decent, small class size, less expensive, but you share the track with a track day org. They want you to run 50-75% speed (to work on the technique) which is tough when you have other I riders passing, etc. All in all both good schools, but YCRS was better because of having the track exclusively for the school and more expensive as a result. Would love to repeat YCRS.

 

JDSA has a stand alone school much like the YCRS school.

 

eeeegads!

Too rich for my blood. I'd love to take it but....yea...

 

I can't talk for ycrs or Disalvo but I did css last march. I was impressed with the advancement I made from the information they teach you. I did level 1 & 2 and can't wait to do 3 & 4.

 

I attended YRCS at Miller in Las Vegas. We ran the track CW one day and CCW the next, which was cool to use their techniques in essence on two tracks. Each morning started out with a van ride around the track, during the ride Nick or Kenny illustrated proper lines as well as trail braking while in the van. They run stock bikes with brake lights exposed so the instructors can monitor your trail braking. Of course they preach 100 points of grip on the front tire and teach you to load up the front tire before turning in. Drills, included trail braking and control braking, clutch control, throttle blipping, various corner drills. My biggest take ways from the class was trail braking and using my head to help turn the bike. I had a two up ride with Scott Russell as he showed me the effect of your head placement to help adjust your bike in the process of turning.

 

I do think the YCR class room sessions and lecture were much better in YCRS than CSS. Contrast that with the more personalized 2-1 on-track instructor to student focus of CSS. I found my particular coach fantastic. He did not just point out my errors but explain why I was getting away with them and how they would make me crash if I upped my pace. Then explained how to correct them. I found it amazing how he could explain exactly what was happening, why, and how to fix them. I absolute improved and never felt more confident in the track. That said, I could see that your experience with CSS is highly dependent on the quality of your particular coach.

Although I was very satisfied, I was also very detailed, honest and critical in my course eval - nothing is perfect. They take the evals seriously. Their lead instructor emailed me to talk about my comments. We had a great conversation. They really cared about my feedback. I thought that was pretty impressive.