Pocono East Fog Out?

I'm just annoyed that they sent us home at 1:30 and then the sun was out at 2pm.



When you pay for a trackday and a refund is not an option, I say wait until 4pm at least to get an hour of riding in if you have too. My bad, it would have been 2hrs of riding because Pocono runs until 6pm.



It was quite clear that the Pocono staff did not want to be there that day and the guy clearly stated that at the riders meeting.



People drive for hours to to attend these events. Spend toll money and gas money. Hell, my trip alone was about $100 for gas and tolls and I live in NYC. Other folks came from a lot further out. I'm sorry Monte (and I hope you read this) but whoever made the call to send us home at 1:30 is a dumbass and I hope you give that person a good talking too.



The bottom line is that these STT/Reduc Events need to be run much better. Yeah I know it's a tough business. Yes, I guess I'm greatful for the $50 voucher, it's better than nothing. But for crying out loud they didn't even take a rider vote.



Whatever man, I guess we'll all move on.

 

I agree, and I was camping just down the street. The issue I'm also having is the 1st Pocono event. I may not be able to make that for 1 reason or another! Why not make this to any Pocono Day during the new calender year, that way all the folks that missed out on the day [the ones that stayed] can at least enjoy the 50$ refund. I think that would please more people than telling them they HAVE to use this on THAT date!! This was just one of those weekends, the following weekend was not alot better with NESBA, it rained most of the morning and took forever to dry the line, BUT aleast we got 1/2 a day in....

 

Policy

Found this on the policy page:



"In the extremely unlikely event that management at a venue calls the day prior to any on-track activity due to the track being deemed "non-ridable", a make up date may be issued for a future date of the venues choosing. This date will be the sole remedy and no refunds/credits for future events will be issued by Sportbike Track Time. An event voucher will be issued to all riders scheduled for the event. This voucher may be transferred to another current STT member of the same skill level group if desired."



A close reading reveals the phrases "the day prior" and "may be issued", implying that no guarantees are made for a same-day cancellation and even so, only if the track owners feel like doing it.



I don't know how the managements at other tracks have handled this, but after this episode, and the fact that this particular track s*cks anyway, howabout this solution: don't ride at Pocono. They've got NASCAR, and don't need or want us there.

 

I didn't attend the Pocono event, and just read about the situation today, but I feel compelled to respond. (I tried to respond directly to Monte's "sticky" post, but it's locked.) Monte, this is directed at you.



In your post, you quoted the STT rain policy, and this seems to be the only information given anywhere by the entire STT organization about cancellations. The policy clearly states that STT has a "rain or shine" policy, implying that the events will run regardless of the weather - yet, that didn't happen. The next statement is that "rain checks" are only given at Grattan, and then there are two sentences about these "rain checks" that spell out the rules regarding "rain checks". It appears that you are giving out a form of "rain check" to the riders who showed up, but couldn't ride. Yet you are not following your written policy regarding the rain check. (First, you are giving them out at an event not held at Grattan, and second, your refund is not what is described in the policy.) By the way, to attempt to say that this "discount voucher" is anything other than a "rain check" is ridiculous. (Remember your "rain or shine" policy?)



Then, you quote an irrelevant section about what happens if a venue cancels an event the day prior. (This didn't happen, either.) The rest of your post simply helps us understand how STT is getting screwed by Pocono, how it isn't their fault, how it isn't your fault, etc. The problem with your entire post is that you (STT) collected money for an event that never happened. People paid for a service that you didn't provide. Your legal policy states that you will provide the service, regardless of weather, yet you didn't do that. You (not your customers) are reponsible for providing the services you advertise. You (not your customers) are responsible to ensure that your contract with Pocono protects you from having them (Pocono) cancel your event. As you said in your post - "It's not POCONO's fault, and it's not our fault that the weather was poopy" - but it is your responsibility.



So in a nutshell you're SOL.

 

I wasn't there, either, but I know what Pocono is like in the fog. If it was just raning, people probably could've ridden. When it's foggy at Pocono, you can't see 6 feet in front of you and there is absolutely no way you can safely allow anyone on the track in those conditions. That's just the way Pocono weather is. Pocono doesn't give "fog days" and you only get rain dates if you have rain insurance. To me, it sounds like the STT policy only has rain insurance at Grattan. When Reduc was in existence, we had rain insurance for a few years, until it became prohibitively expensive. There were restrictions on it, too; it had to rain a certain amount by 1 pm. There were many times it rained too hard and/or was foggy and no one rode, but it didn't rain enough for the insurance to kick in. Everyone was out money then, too. No easy answer, sometimes that's just the way it goes. If you want rain insurance, it will add considerable cost to the event, and even with it, there's still no guarantee that it will rain enough for it to pay out. Do any tracks give the clubs refunds if no one can get on the track? We already know Pocono does not. They shouldn't have made you leave at 1:30.

 

That wasn't Monte's quote, I'm just another rider. I'm not defending STT or trying to villify them. My gripe is that the policy needs some clarification. The provisions (on the site) for a same-day cancellation aren't made clear. The sections I copied from the policy page were there to illustrate that.



I've spoken to Monte about similar situations before, and he was very straightforward about this being luck-of-the-draw with few guarantees.

 

Sure, I'm dissapointed with how things turned out. Last month I started some counseling to help me deal with my grief. The doctor says I'll be fine by April, just in time to use my $50 voucher at Pocono. A voucher towards an April track day at Pocono is a small step up compared to a voucher towards a sailing vacation, say, on Lake Erie in January. It can be done, buy you may be wishing for a little fog to thaw the ice and snow.



It sounds like in deciding what to do that day, Pocono promised STT something like a partial refund and then changed their minds. That's really a shame, and with hindsight especially, I think we all wish we had stuck it out and gotten maybe 3 sessions in. But the call was made, and the few of us that were still there were sent home. I'm not sure if the call would have been made by STT if they were not told that there would be a partial credit.



HondaGal2 is right--Pocono weather sucks and there is no easy way to insure against it. The weather at that track is notoriously sketchy (even though I can think of only two days in the couple dozen I've done there in the last 4 years that were totally unrideable.). I believe STT tried to do us right in this situation. Grumbling about it is a little like grumbling about air. Life is sometimes unfair and imperfect. It doesn't mean someone is always at fault, responsible, or has to pay.



But it just doesn't matter. It's water under the bridge. I've had three great track days since then, which in addition to the afformentioned counseling, have helped me move on.



Happy Winter and see you in the spring.



Chris

 

Well said Chris. Weather fouling up trackdays, races or any other outdoor activity is part of the game.



When I was a Reduc director, it was obvious that any accomodation from racetracks was forgotten twentfour hours later and rain insurance, while helpful some days, was a real crap shoot. The riders expected the rain insurance to kick in if it rained at all. The insurance company required a certain amount of rain by a certain time or they didn't pay. The race track was trying to get us to pack up and go home as soon as the gates opened.



It's just not realistic to expect anyone to protect us from weather related losses. Any time we go to the track we should be prepared to be dissapointed and loose our money.



The good days, which is most of them, more than make up for the bad ones.



Mike Duzick

 

:arrow: :lol:

 

First off, having been there that day, I'll say that for all those who stuck it out that day and were told to go home at 1:30pm, only to have the sun break out at 2pm just as all bikes had been packed away and cornerworkers and ambulances sent home, I don't think the same mistake will ever be made again.



To drag out the elephant in the room...when Reduc was around, no matter how shitty the weather, the directors knew from experience how fickle Pocono's weather system was. Having already committed their time and resources, they would always wait out the full length of the day. On more than one occasion we waited out seemingly neverending rain or fog, only to have the sun break out at 2p or 3p, finishing the event with 3 great sessions which made it all worthwhile.



Notwithstanding the promise of a partial credit from Pocono, I think that when it comes to weather, STT staff now knows it needs to be willing to stick it out to the end on these events. The time, logistics and effort had already been put in place, not to hold it there for another couple of hours in hindsight seems pretty silly.



Take Chris' post as some free therapy...I doubt we'll be faced with the same situation ever again...



Kath

 

Kath....Yes, we (the Directors) stayed until the day was over, and yes, the few riders who braved it out (or were crazy enough to stay, depending on perspective) often got to ride, but in deplorable conditions. Yet, ironically, more often than not, the few riders who stayed were all instructors, who hadn't paid for the day, and quite frankly irritated me a bit with the insensitivity not to realize that we (the Directoirs and corner workers) were standing around in the cold and the rain so they could take advantage of free track time for which (due to the fact that all their "students" had left) they never really had to fullfill the duties that went along with the arraingement. But in every case, we had, indeed already had bikes "on track" earlier in the day for at least a session, and Pocono was not obligated to refund any of our fees, and our members would not have been offered any type of voucher.

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with STT's decision to leave, as staying and letting a few riders ride would have deprived the many more who left the opportunity to ride again at a reduced cost, in better conditions; a tough choice, but one that was far different than our choice to stay when we had already had bikes on track.





ps.... have you seen the new 1098? Ducati seems to have decided to get back into the "pretty" bike business again, and it not only has a bunch of power, but it's the first twin that doesn't need $20K worth of methdrine to get it down to fighting weight; it's only 380lbs! Really nice!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Hey Bobby, with all due respect, most of the times I'm referring to you had already left!



And although there were a few instructors among those who stayed (and stayed just as much out of obligation as wanting to get in some track time...which was their only compensation in most cases by the way), the couple of times to which I'm referring the sun came out and we had a completely dry track for 3-4 hrs from previously fogged in or wet conditions, and there were definitely regular members present taking advantage as well.



Everyone pays the same amount of money and takes about the same amount of time out of their schedule to attend these trackdays, but for some the financial and time cost is more dear than for others. If a $300-$400 weekend means little enough to you that you are willing to take off early, then that's your prerogative, but to some others it's a much bigger investment. Once the event is paid for and put on, best efforts should be made to run it to the end.



It was a tough call to make at the time...hopefully it will work out better next time.



As for the 1098...very middle of the road to me...not ugly, but no standout either as Ducati has come to be known for with the superbike line. Love it or hate it, Ducati Superbikes always looked a breed apart; not so much anymore. Performance and price stats are very attractive, but in the end the styling seems merely the succumbing to pressure of an unvisionary and stagnant consumer aesthetic...I can only hope the sales keep Ducati in the black for the sake of their racing teams.



Sorry if I seem pissy...we'll just agree to disagree on these points!



Kath

 

Not "pissy", Kath, but wrong.....during my 13 years as a Director I only twice left a Reduc event before it ended; once on April 24th, 1994 by ambulance, and again on July 29th, 1997 by helicopyer, and both days were cloudless ( I remember well, as each time my head was secured to a litter, and I could only look up to the sky!!!) This past season, I left early on both Sundays in April and May due to weather (they were the days that cleared up that you were referring to), and left early in August due to a crushed tibia, but I was an STT member, not a Reduc Director.

And as far as the new 1098 beauty is concerned......, you don't sound "pissy", but "pissed off" that you didn't wait a couple of years, as I believe the new bike will have a equally significant impact as the 916 did 13 years ago in every respect....styling and performance. It's not "middle of the road" at all, as it brings MotoGp styling and a new level of performance to twins with a power to weight ratio that has only been before available from inline 4 cylinder machines combined with the power delivery and off corner traction of a twin. Sorry, but even Ducati's most vocal non believer is impressed and eager to ride one (hi Mike....LOL).

 

I kind of like the 1098's looks and although not very original, I'm sure in time it will grow on me even more. The performance should be fantastic though.





http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=124679

 

What's this board coming to, people are talking about motorcycles!

 

Sorry, Jack.....I don't know what I was thinking :cry: .

 

...okay...let's just say I remember it differently...like certain someone's deciding they could have more fun getting home in time to catch a MotoGP race that happened to be going on instead of waiting out shitty weather...:wink: :evil: :!:

Nah...I'm very happy with what I have.....I love the looks of my 999...both the 916 and the 999 were groundbreaking designs each in their own right...the 1098, while it looks perfectly fine, has lost the visionary trademark of Ducati design, instead becoming a mash-up of stale punditry. Bringing back the single-sided swingarm? WEAK! I'll save my money for a Desmosedici one day, thanks very much... :lol:



And besides...as far as performance, was just down at Summit Point for two days of the full course and the 999 was flawless...the front finally working great, the Pilot Power street tires working impressively to allow me consistent and controlled :25s and even a couple :24s both days, which I was thrilled with since those are the best times I've done there so far, and I feel I could go even faster... The bike was giving incredible feedback while riding on rails...I can even say that I've ended up with a setup that I don't want to change! I imagine that I could find the best of my abilities on the 999...so the 1098 isn't necessary in that regard...



As a nod to what might be important to some, sure I was down on power alongside the GSXR1000 on the long front straight, but only against those who were using the Suzuki's full power through the gears (which of course at Summit is still probably only the top end of 4th!). Just made it that much more fun to reel them back in through the the infield... :wink:



All the same...if the 1098 is what finally gets a 4cyl pagan like you to see the light and check out the whole Ducati package you've been missing all these years, I say bring it on! :lol: :!



Kath

 

4-cyl pagan is only a small step from 2-cyl pagan!

 

said the godless, thumper heathen... :roll: