Just got home a little while ago and I really wanted to offer a very big Thank You to the Southern Stall of STT. Today was the first time that Peggy and I have ever ridden the track and with a little help from the staff, we made it through the day without incident and I got into the 45's also. Thank you Paul for your help and hope to see y'all again soon.
First a quick disclaimer. I do not mean to disrespect anyone who-so-ever with this. It's just simple observations and no disrespect is intended. Observation 1: This was my second time riding with STT and my first with them at Road A, I have to say the org itself is much better than I expected. These guys do a bang up job. The instructors are always willing to help, the tire service is great, and everyone is just as friendly as can be which is kinda creepy (kidding). Observation 2: My last time at Road Atlanta was with NESBA, I was bumped up from B (There equivalent of N) to I group. What I like better about STT's I group is that you can pass anywhere so long as you maintain a safe distance (6feet). With NESBA I group riders can only pass on the outside, no distance margin specified. The problem with the STT way is that I regularly noticed the rule being violated. I'm not gonna run some guy down and bite his head off because he passed on my inside within 2 feet, but it isn't all that comfortable when it happens. I want to be at the point one day where I have people passing me and am passing people at much closer than six feet, but I'm not quite there yet. The problem with the NESBA way of doing things is that it is about damn impossible to pass a rider of similar skill on the outside of the turn. Which brings me to the third observation. Observation 3: The NESBA I groups is quite a bit faster than STT. Those guys don't mess around. In NESBA I run middle of the pack.... maybe less than the 50% mark. With STT I'm more along the lines of the top 10%. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag about my uber skills or talk about how NESBA is so much better than STT, because that is not my point at all. I noticed similar trends in people's riding NESBA and similar trends with people in STT. Here is what I'm really getting at. A. The most noticeable trend right off the bat occurs on the back straight. Here's how it should go, exit turn 7, hammer down, and don't let up until you're at a MAXIMUM of 400ft from 10a. I've had my '08 R1 at Road A. It is bone stock but will still hit well over 160 on the back straight (forgive me for not looking down to give you a more exact number). Why are I group riders in intermediate being timid on the back straight? I just don't understand. My opinion is that if you're not comfortable going a buck sixty on your motorcycle in a straight line, you don't belong in I group. I know a lot of people are afraid of the kink and the blind hill, but it's really the easiest part of the track to gain a hell of a lot of time. B. Similar to point A, coming over the hill after 10b and into 12. There is so much speed to be had that most riders aren't taking advantage of. Don't be afraid of a blind hill, pick a reference and throttle up that mofo! C. In general I see early braking resulting in slow corners. From the exit of turn 1 (I'm not going to get started on turn 1. I'm still trying to get it right, but I'm getting close I think) to the exit of turn 7 in traffic it's a Sunday ride through the mountains. The thing is that most riders are riding lines that are absolutely beautiful. There is so much more speed to be found if you just trust your bike a little more. D. Finally, I know I am not the fastest guy out there and I'm not looking to criticize anyone, just offering some thoughts. The instructors in I are great, hell get with one of them before the session and ask him or her to tow you around for a while. I do it all the time . I think the fastest rider in I yesterday was the girl on the very shiny '09 R6 who just owned me on the back straight time after time, damn that thing is fast. Not to call her out, but I saw huge progression in her corners throughout the day. Third session I could catch up to her on the corners only to be blown away on the straights, by the end of the day she would blow by me and just be GONE. Kudos!
AU R1 wrote: My wife rides in the I group (she is soon to be 57 years old BTW) and has absolutely NO desire to pin it all the way down the straight sections. She is amazingly fast through the corners for an "I" rider and has great lines and is very smooth. Let's face it, most anyone can twist the throttle in a straight line without too much of a skill set. Negotiating the corners and holding a consistent line and being smooth requires a lot more skills. She is very comfortable riding at "her" pace and is not the least bit concerned about lap times. She is out there to have fun......and busting the corners is where she has her fun. I've seen plenty of riders that will use their literbike power to bust A$$ down the straight sections then when they get to a corner, they probably should be issued a "parking ticket" for going so slow. So in summerization, just because YOU believe that someone shouldn't be in the "I" group because they are not running a buck sixty in the straight, doesn't necessarily make it so. As you stated, that is your opinion and I've just stated mine. AU R1 also wrote: I guess I'm trying to figure out, since you are riding a literbike, why someone on a 600 was "owning" you on the back straight? Maybe you shouldn't be in the "I" group if 600's are passing you there.............Are you beginning to see the flaw in your thinking? Trackdays mean different things to different people, and each and everyone of us are out there for their own reasons; whether it be to drop seconds off of their lap times, simply become a better more consistent rider and improve their riding skills, get a big adrenaline rush, or to just ......HAVE FUN, in whatever way that they are able. I guess I'm glad that YOU are not the guy that is making the decision as to rider placement into whatever group and that decision is being made by people that are much more insightful than your narrow-minded reasons. No offense, but I think you have a lot to learn when it comes to riding, people, and just enjoying the day at hand.............just my opinion of course.
Road Atlanta is a very intimidating track, and ultimate speed is not the measure of a rider. I coached I today, and didnt notice any riders who dont belong there. There were some faster than others for sure, but everyone seemed pretty predictable and consistent. the back stretch can get sketchy with the differences in speed, that is for sure. An SV650, and a brand new GSXR1000...... on the same straight ..... :shock: :shock: But MOST Of the time everyone seemed to have some patience and give PLENTY of room as they went by with speed differentials easily in the 20mph range or more sometimes. All in all it was a good weekend I think. Also, the nesba Vs STT thing. I have been coaching long enough now that I can GUARANTEE you, that if you do two dates with us at the same track, you might just be surprised. Some weekends a group will be "slow" on average, then the next weekend that same group is MUCH faster........ it goes for all three groups. Heck even from one day to the next. I coached Novice all weekend at Tally about a month ago. first day the novice group was pretty quick. The next day, over HALF the students it was their first trackday, ever.
My first time w/ STT also.. I was in Intermediate on saturday and because of some mechanical reasons and HEAT I only made 4 sessions but loved it. I thought you all were very professional, down to earth, organized and SAFE.... 10 out of 10 on my scale. I also thought I group was on the slower side though... I am definitley on the faster side of I in nesba but some people absolutley tork me there... I think only one dude on a green Ninja (with a helmet cam)passed me all weekend... and I passed him back... Im not that fast... I asked some guys that raced wera how A was and they said kinda slow... so it was probably just a slow weekend.. As far as I guys being slow on the back stretch... its not a problem... you should be looking far enough ahead to see em and devise a plan where when you will pass and where you willl be on the track when you pass em.. for instance I usually choose middle of the track instead of the far right in the kink if I am coming up on slow traffic and late brake em while easing back right for 10A. Hey AUR1 I did pass you one time a little close... but I dont like auburn too much... you probably saw a big T (tennesse) on my undertail!!! :wink: We will have to talk football sometime... My thing on not going to A is I am not yet comfortable trail braking much.. I had some old veteran Wera racer friends watching only and they say on T1 I need to be braking later and brake to the apex on T1 and throttle out... currently I brake, start turn and acclearate through.. untill I get trail braking down, you wont see me in A.. But anyone can pass me as close as they want as long as they dont hit me... Just my 2 cents.. Thanks Again STT!!! 07 GSXR 750 (blue and black)
xrated wrote: I'm not sure if it's written in there somewhere and I don't feel like re-reading my entire post, but if you look at my signature it clearly states I ride an R1 on the street and an R6 on the track. Check your glasses old man. If you're surprised by a girl on a more powerful bike passing a heavier rider on a long straight then I believe you have something to learn about simple physics. Auburn has a great program, you should look into it. Furthermore I find your post quite insulting. I stated my opinion and specifically stated that I did not mean to insult anyone. However stating "No offense" before an offensive statement is somewhat different. Who the hell are you to tell me I have a lot to learn about riding or people? There's not a lot that pisses me off but you struck a nerve there. No offense but go f*** yourself. I'm sorry your wife is not comfortable pinning it on the back straight, I can understand that being 50 something it's not something she's comfortable with. That's cool. Maybe she would be more comfortable in the N group? [This is not sarcasm] Is there a particular reason she chooses to ride in I? Does she get caught up behind slower riders in the corners? I'm just curious. Obviously you feel I somehow was way out of line with my original post. Perhaps because you though I was just another a$$ hole with a liter bike and no true skill. [Disclaimer: I have nothing against liter bike riders, even if I'm stuck behind or pass you in the twisties only to be blown away on the straight. Chasing you makes my day more fun. I love you all xoxo] Or perhaps you feel I was directly insulting your wife or the entire STT I group. I promise you, neither is the case. I spoke to several other I group riders at the end of the day yesterday and one of the things everyone mentioned was how they were surprised by the slow speed of several of the riders in I group. I know there was one female in particular, who was noticeably slow to me. Through out the day I often passed her twice in the same session, being as I started ever session in the front of the group this means I more or less lapped her twice in a 20 minute period. I don't know if it is really unsafe for a rider like that to be in I group, but I believe she would be a lot more comfortable in N. Moto_joe wrote: I did notice that today the I group today seemed a little faster than yesterday. However, I only got a session and a half in before I found the leak in my radiator that ended my day. As far as people who "don't belong", I guess it would depend on your opinion of what the requirements should be. STT sets the "requirements" here, it's their org, that's the way it is, and I fully accept that. STT instructors get to decide who should stay in a group or be moved up or down... kind of. As is stated in the riders meeting they only move a rider who is riding "dangerously slow" or whipping everyone else. If a rider is only "annoyingly slow" and not quite "dangerously slow" we just have to deal with it. Getting into a NESBA vs. STT argument would just be silly. There is no requirement to sign up for I group in either org and I'm sure the CRs/Instructors do all the can to make sure everone is in the most appropriate group for their skill. Both are great orgs as far as I am concerned, both have things I like and very few things I dislike. I plan on riding with whichever is hosting an event at a track close to me that weekend. I couldn't agree more, speed is a byproduct, a very very fun byproduct.
AU R1 wrote: OK, as far as wearing glasses, yep, I do and you probably will someday also. No, I didn't read your signature to know that you were riding a 600 on the track, but it really doesn't matter to me what anyone rides on the track....it is what it is. Actually, I find YOUR post quite offesive, telling me to go "f*** myself". After that statement, I stand by my original comment,.....you have a lot to learn about people and people skills that apparrently you didn't learn at A.U. You offered up your opinion on who should or shouldn't be in the I group and I offered up my opinion. I stated that there are other things besides being fast on the straight sections of the track that judge a rider's skill. You seemed to be focused on whether or not a person could do a buck sixty as the criterion for I group. Who am I to tell you that you've got a lot to learn about people and riding.......it's pretty simple. YOU stated that YOU had just been bumped to the I group with NESBA, so based on that statement by YOU, not me, I would still say that you have a lot to learn about riding, otherwise you would most likely be in the Advanced group or maybe be under contract with an AMA team. As far as having a lot to learn about people,.......yep, that too, as evidenced by your comment to me "go f*** yourself" I don't think that was warrented at all and it just goes to show the whole STT board/forum how immature that you were with that comment. Final point on the "old man" comment. Yep, I'm going to be 55 years old in a few months and my wife will be 57 two days later. You should only hope and pray that when you reach your 50's and/or 60's that you are still able to do trackdays and have a wife that is as excited about doing a trackday as I am. I wouldn't necessarily make too many negative comments about some of the "senior" riders that ride with STT, you may find yourself being passed by one of them.......and not on a straight section either.
I'm glad I'm not totally alone thinking that at least on this particular day, things were a little slow. I thought the track itself was wicked [yes I just said wicked] fast Saturday and while my lap timer was dead I felt like I pulled some of my best times ever. I'm trying to recall what turn this close pass was made on. I do believe I remember someone on a black and blue gixxer doing such a dastardly act. I want to say it was somewhere between turn 2 and turn 6, but I can't remember where. It seemed that it was unintentional and I wasn't too butt hurt by it. When my bike was working properly I only remember being passed b 3 or 4 riders. The shinny R6, that damn green Kawi 1k [Was that one of the "out of control old men racing" team? I think he wrecked today. Unless there was another green Kawi with a guy wearing green leathers. Anyway he was wicked fast.] and whatever gixxer that was that made a close pass. I got passed by a good number of riders when I decided to explore the rumble strip and grass on the inside of turn 10b. The rumble strip seemed to rumble just right, but the grass needs a little tending to. My throttle stuck when I was downshifting, I was distracted trying to figure out why I wasn't slowing down like I normally do and f-ed the corner all to hell. If I had concentrated on making the turn and not on why the bike wasn't slowing I probably would have made the turn just fine. It was a noob mistake I won't make again. I got passed by just about everyone when my bike overheated between 5 and 6. That was a long trip back to the pits, I tried to wave my arm and leg frantically the entire time so everyone knew well in advance the were going to have to go around my slow ass. As they say in the rider's meeting, it's not about how many people you pass or how many people pass you, this isn't a race. But let's be honest here, passing people is just fun and getting passed reminds you that there's someone out there faster than you. As is also stated in the meeting we are all type A personalities we have a natural desire to want to be the fastest. Don't take that as me saying I'll do whatever I can to be the fastest. For me a winning day is a day I keep the bike shinny side up, myself in one piece, and go home to give the gf the attnetion she needs.
I was on a black and blue GSXR Did the rider have an orange vest on? That would have been me. There were two other bikes that looked fairly similar to mine though. I only went out in I group ONE session saturday :?: I was getting my brain up to speed after a day of coaching novice. If I did make a close pass it would have been purely un-intentional, and more than likely I gave you a wave afterwords to say "sorry" I will also say this....... if I did make a close pass, it would have GUARANTEED been because the rider in front of me made an unpredictable move, that put me in a position that I had to. So if it was in fact me....... maybe YOU should still be in Novice... and work on predictability :lol: :wink:, since you seen to want to judge who needs to be where
I'm KNOW there are plenty of guys twice my age who can spank my a$$ right proper on the track. I've learned a lot from several of them. In fact I think that the "Out Of Control Old Men Racing" Team is one of the most awesome things I've seem in a good long while. Props to you guys if you read this. I can only hope to be that cool when I'm 50, 60, or whatever. The old man, glasses, and go f*** yourself comment was a direct reply to the condescending tone of our message. At the risk of sounding like a coked out teenage prostitute on the Jerry Springer Show, you don't know me. So don't presume you have any advice I'd be interested in. Simply being 55 provides no indication of one's wisdom or intellectual superiority. This IS my first season doing trackdays, yes I was only bumped to I group about a month ago, I got the bump after my 4th ever trackday. I've been riding motorcycles for quite some time, I take this sport very seriously, and am very passionate. While I still have a lot to learn don't assume that because I was only recently bumped I don't know what I'm doing or desire your advice.
I just think I should be in charge of everything, everywhere. I'm sure everyone else will come around eventually. :lol: There have been a couple times in both NESBA and STT when a CR/Instructor made a pass on me that wasn't exactly within the rules of the group. I trust their abilities and don't often think anything of it. As far as being predictable it's actually something I'm paranoid about. Part of me wants to mount a camera on my tail so I can review what everyone behind me had to deal with over the course of the session. I just try to ride more or less the same line every lap and not make any sudden/random moves. I wouldn't recommend being too close behind me going into 10a though :lol: Rest assured it wasn't you, I would have remembered an orange vest. I saw him pushing for the pass, we simply went into the corner too close together, and he finished the pass. No harm done, it was actually kinda cool.
OK......Now I understand..........You can offer up YOUR opinion but it's not OK for me to interject mine if it doesn't agree with you. Thanks for the clarification on that. You really don't have to worry about me offering you any advice whatsoever. Basically if I see you on the track and you are going slower than me........I'll pass you somewhere.....inside, outside, straightaway.......wherever. I'm sure that if you are faster than me, you will do the same......but please, leave the rider group placement duties to the guys that run the show.
sometimes shit happens. I will speak for CRs everywhere that we try our hardest to lead by example....... BUT. With that said, every now and then, we are "on the hunt" for a particular rider, and running quite a brisk pace to find/catch them, and the closing speeds become more than we anticipate. We are human...... we make mistakes too. Glad it was not me, but it would not have surprised me. I can think of at least 2-3 times it WAS me with other riders over the course of the weekend.
I gave my opinion on a generality, you read it wrong and insulted me personally. Don't be a dick and I won't blow up on you, it's pretty simple. To quote myself There are always going to be misplaced riders where ever you go. It's a fact of the life and people like me will always comment on it. If that makes me a dick, then I'm a big dick.
Hey joe, wanted to thank you and the rest of the STT guys for another really great day. also wanted to apologize for chopping the throttle coming out of 8. the rear stepped out a little early and my hand moved a little too quickly. I think you had me lined up before that on the inside anyway, but i felt bad knowing what had happened to you earlier. Any idea why we finished @7.5 minutes under a waving red in the last session? the guy in the gravel after 10b appeared to be un-harmed? Regardless it was a perfect day for me. Looking forward to Barber. BL
I get told by YOU to....go f*** yourself, yet I'm the one that insulted you??? You just don't get it do you??? I'm done with this!
coming out of T8? You mean T5? Are you teh guy I rear ended? I am confused. There was a guy who nearly highsided out of T5, and Chris made it to the inside of him, but my vision was blocked by chris, and I didnt make it, but nobody crashed, so all was well. As to stopping early, I think it had to do with the fact we HAD to get done by 6:00, county rules or something, but I dont know that to be fact.
Onto to Au comments on STT I group . The group is preset at registration and our flexibility to bump people is limited . My job as a coach is to find those people who are struggling and bring them up to speed . I agree that Saturday started off slow , even your freind on the gold R6 I pulled around for a session to get her up to speed . Sunday's session I think every one was more consistant , but the beauty of STT is that our people know we will do what ever it takes to give them a great track experience . 8)