Sure, you can change your bike setup to make up for poor riding technique, for a long time when setting up bikes people dropped the front ends or jacked up the rears, put on really stiff rear springs etc all to mimic the effects you can get by just trailing the brakes a little, The problem is you get a really unstable bike that doesn't work well anywhere but turn in. It's easier to just fix the rider and leave the bike alone, cheaper too :thumb:
You guys beat me to it. I was going to say, you would be hard pressed to find anyone at the Pro level that DOESN'T trail brake!
To be more accurate I should have said some pros do not use trail braking to TURN the bike quicker. Austin Dehavin won super sport . I know his coach and I know he wasn't taught to turn the bike by using the brakes . Will eikenberry set the lap record that stood for several years at streets of willow with no trail braking at all . There is a list of champions Keith code has trained and I'm sure he never told them to turn the bike quicker use the brakes. If you want to use the brakes to turn the bike be my guest. I will continue to use the handle bars to steer and brakes to slow me down.
Here's another rub...if we're going to talk trail braking,an apropriate segway would to talk about RPM management,which also has entry,turn-in,chassis stability,and of corse exit dynamics....higher compression motors,especialyl Twins,will dive from engine braking when chopping the throttle,as well as in lines...so depending on how you slow down and come towards a corner,do you chop and blip,to you rev match? Either application will change how you trail in to a corner,harder or softer...make sense??
Why does it matter? Can't two people who are into motorcycles and teaching riding talk about riding techniques? Am I not supposed to have a differing opinion?
Opinions are great, but, when another person has literally a lifetime of experience behind them and has tried everything under the sun, what works, what doesn't work, etc., sometimes you have to look at things with an open mind and try to see things from all perspectives.
you are very confused no one said the purpose of trail braking is to make the bike turn faster. no one is advocating using the brakes to turn the bike. what we are talking about is the effect on the bike while turning and braking ...trail braking. if you think riders do it to turn you are wrong, just like if you think the pro's (even the little guys in the back of the field) dont trail brake you would be wrong again
Well I am....if I come in a little hot,and it's pushing,regardless if my baseline is off or not,I can brake to get the bike turned,I just intuitivley know not to have too much lean angle,this is where the foot pegs come in....if I'm a little hot coming in,and have to trail to get it tuned,I'll weight the outside peg a bit to reduce lean angle so I shouldn't tuck,changing body position is another way,but that's alot of work,and alas...I'm old...:thumb:
what i mean is you dont approach a corner and automaticly trail brake in order to turn. its primary function is not to turn the bike but it does assist. keep it in your bag of tricks for your scenario above, its a handy tool. i believe its the same scenario as my t11 @ barber example i posted earlier
Just don't do what you did in the coaster last year Johnny Boy and all will be well... carbon rotors or not...:getdown:
LOL!! No shit bro...well,I got through March there so I think I excercized the demon...you goin to R.A. in July now???
No cant do Road America this year then... I signed up for that Same Mon-Tues in June when it was orginaly scheduled for then cancelled... Bill and I are going to do a Mid Ohio event those 2 days.....
I've been to both California Superbike School and YCRS. There are two very different philosophies of accomplishing clean, stable turns taught in those schools. Keith Code and CSS believe that trail braking can't be easily taught or learned, and so he teaches quick turn. Nick Insatech/Ken Hill and YCRS believe that trail braking is an essential survival skill both on the track and on the street, so they teach it as a fundamental of riding. But the end goal is precisely is the same - clean, predictable, stable and repeatable turns on every lap. Trail braking even a couple of % can help keep the forks from quickly extending, thus maintaining the shorter wheelbase of the compressed forks and therefore minimizing turning radius. Going into a corner PLANNING on doing this makes for a very repeatable and consistent performance. Additionally, using trailbraking allows me precise control on the loading of the front wheel. If it starts to tuck, giving back 1-2% of my front braking can stabilize it and make it a non-issue. The real skill with trail braking is in mastering the small changes to braking force that can make the difference between too much and not enough. Learning to read what the tire, suspension and bike are telling you is pretty important to become an expert at the skill. Using quick turn can also accomplish the same result, if you have planned for it and execute it properly. It also requires practice and learned skill to become a consistent, repeatable technique. If I'm getting into a corner too hot, I've already made my mistakes by not getting my *Primary* braking done in time, or mis-judging my speed, or being off-line. At that point, just do what it takes to complete the turn without losing grip. Having been taught both methods, I personally find that using trail braking and good body position/form gives me more confidence and a more consistent line. Trail braking allows me a more drama-free turn-in and allows me to pull the bike down to the apex a lot more smoothly, predictably and confidently without thrashing around on the bike. But that's just my experience, and I'm not trying to win races, I'm just riding at a trackday.
are you really saying you save front end tucks by "giving back 1-2% of my front braking" ? ...really??? :der:
:cheer: RIGHT HERE IS WHERE U SAID TRAIL BRAKING TURNS THE BIKE QUICKER! I have ridden w nick and dillan Code and observed personally dillan arrives at his desired lean angle faster than nick ...........a lot faster ! None of Keith codes champions turn the bike quicker do to trail braking . I will go so far as to say to u go do level one at California superbike ,do the drills ,and if your coach tells me that you're not turning the bike to your desired lean angle faster by the end of the day and you understand the technique I will give you a kiss on the ass in front of nick ! And if I can't b there Craig will stand in for me ! LOL