2008 r6 TRACK ONLY .. i ride fast novice but will probably get bumped to inters soon .. i am hard on the gas out of turns and about medium on the brakes w/ a little bit of coasting into turns i want a tire that: *i can get 4-6 track days out of using warmers *costs around the $300-400 range *will stay grippy at my given pace(i know it takes alot of hard riding to keep a tire up to proper temp) * last but not least: a tire i can get stupid lean angles with .. more for peace of mind that anything else .. i feel most comfortable and at home hanging off the bike like marc marquez does as if im going to just lay down and take a nap on the track lol .. but seriously .. i probably dont go as low as i think because im 6'4" so i can drag my right knee making a left turn lol but again just for peace of mind .. one less thing ill worry about .. i mean i go through a set of knee pucks every track day and a half so i think i spend more time at lean than straight up i have pilot power 3's right now and i feel like im pushing it when fully leaned .. my tire guy sells pirelli michelin and b stones race and street tires but it seems everyone is in love with dunlop .. with that said can anyone suggest what tire would be ideal for me based on whats above? and if it is dunlops can someone refer me to your vendor and somehow get the tires to grattan 7/6-7 weekend(with your help if possible please) so i can have them installed there for before first session that sat morning thanks:thumb: PS im interested in what u have to say but we all know everyone is just goig to name their favorite tire and this thread is going to go like every other tire thread does .. so if ur like me and u hang off ur bike and get low when leaning and scrape your elbows even .. then id like your imput most .. but all imput and advice is welcome
I'm on a tight budget and choose pilot power 3, about 270 a set. You'll be happy! You sure you pushing the front in novice? maybe it isn't the tire, but then again who am I to criticize anyone.
my mind wont let me ... i know i have alot more in the skills tank and i can carry more speed in turns with confidence but i dont have that yet with the pp3's .. im tired of letting the tires be my excuse for not pushing myself harder .. im not so much fast .. i just like to lean so id rather be on a tire i know can .. i have the $$ so i dont mind spending it for quality performance and peace of mind .. even if i dont use it to its potential
I had Dunlop 211 estrictly used with tire wearmers. Inside of rim tempature has to get very got at least that is what they say. Now I have the Dunlop gp-a version which is pretty much the same. Love them. Not very good rain traction but on the dry they get hot!!! Do yourself some research and call National Tire Service they would answer any ??? you may have about Dunlops
There are some wicked fast dudes running and leaning the sh*t out of Q2's (now Q3's) and BStones do well too - I ran the Q2's until just before I got to "A" pace, at which point I switched to Ntec DOT's & Slicks. If you are looking for a bit more of than a street/track tire but not a full race tire why not try the Pirelli Diablo Superbike Pro Track Day slick?? That doesn't require warmers and gets great grip. OR look into buying some primo takeoff Dunlops/Pirelli's/Bstones and give them a shot to see which you like. I like to hang off a lot too but the point to doing it (for me anyway) is too carry more corner speed and keep the bike a bit more on the fatter part of the tire. *I do it for the pics too
I think your best bet would be to talk to Dave with Sportbike Tire Service. Dave is one hell of a racer and knows more about tires than just about anyone out there. I run the power cups with the V front and love them. The tires are AMAZING! I managed to get into the 23s at Grattan running counter clockwise the last WERA race and I'm still running stock suspension on an 08' R6. I attribute a lot of that to the quality and grip of the Michelin Power Cups. Stick with Michelin and have Dave set you up with what you need. http://www.sportbiketireservice.com/
^true also, I was only referring to Street/TD tires or the TD slicks. If you go full DOT or Slicks there is not much better than Dunlop (UK) or Michelin out there (IMO) I plan to try the Michelin Cup or Slicks next time I need tires. Bottom line is many race tires manufactured today are all great! people out there love Bstones and Pirelli too
not calling anyone out or bad mouthing but ive had one experience with him when i was a noob and i was treated exactly like it when i asked about pressures and compounds, etc. ... treated like sh*t .. so ill pass and go thru my tire guy who is the MCRA tire supplier and lives 20 miles from me so is easily accesible
First thing is new tires will not solve your problem. Power 3 are an amazing tire and you can run well into A group times with them as I have done myself. Don't know how many track days you have done but confidence sometimes just takes time. I crashed first of last year and just this weekend I can say after a year and a half I'm back to 100%. Give yourself time I didn't get where I am in a year!
what im riding and riding on plays a huge diff for me at least in confidence ... first TD stock r6 did okay .. few mishaps but no crashes .. second TD the same but with new tires and carried alot more confidence into corners .. third TD same track as second, bike had race pads, new suspension with internals, even better tires, etc. and i carried even MORE confidence when riding and my times were 10-15 seconds faster .. and so on with the 4th TD etc. so its more peace of mind to have better tires ... im sure the pp3 could take me into A class as many street tires could ... i have money to buy race tires and if that gives me confidence and is one less thing i gotta worry abt then its worth the money to me im not planning to start racing for years .. sh*t im in my young 20's .. i dont try to beat lap records, i dont have a lap timer, i dont get butt hurt when i get passed by a friend or a smaller bike, im just out there to get away from the usual grind and enjoy myself in peace ... so now that im not worried about suspension or brakes i think tires r next .. they may not make me faster or make me lean more but they will make me more confident and thats what will make me faster and a better rider
Well, you said you wanted to stop using tires as an excuse... But, that's kind of what you're doing. Here's my 2 cents. No matter what tire you have, you can crash. Going fast is not really about having the perfect machine, it's about being able to read the machine, adapt, an accept yourself as the weakest link. You can buy a $400 set of race tires that are capable of "stupid lean angles", but if you aren't smooth, you'll crash just as fast as you would on street tires. You're asking for a magic tire that's as cheap as a street tire, lasts as long as a street tire, grips like a race tire, and requires no special care. I'll save you the trouble, it doesn't exist, BUT at at your pace the street tire will have more grip than you need, and it fits all your other catagories, the p3 is probably the best tire for you. If you lack confidence in that tire, fix that, and not with a new tire, fix it in your head. Talk to coaches, faster riders, tire vendors etc. Stop using the tire as an excuse. If you want to go faster grab a coach. There are usually plenty of things we can point out in your riding that will make you faster and they rarely involve new equipment. As for worrying about running out of grip. That's a very common concern from new riders. If you are smooth with the controls and body position the tire won't just let go. There are plenty of warnings before that happens, and going fast means learning those. Conditions change, track conditions change, tires go off, suspension gums up, etc etc. If you go out thinking you always have X grip points you'll end up on your head, if you always try to ride when you have max grip you'll be sitting in the pits a lot and blow a ton of money on tires. But really you just need to learn how to ride well and recognize when you are approaching grip limits for that particular day. Adaptability is the key to success in this sport
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uvEpOb49k0A skip to about 2:15 .. first lap is warm up for tires im not super fast, i coast into turns, i may not have proper line, i know this but if anyone can point out anything im missing let me know
i know lol thats why i want better tires to get faster and more confident on, if i dont get any faster or it doesnt give me piece of mind then ill switch back to pp3 and sell whichever tires i buy as take offs and say you told me so but i rode better with less worry as do all ... id ride better(not necessarily faster) on my bike compared to the stock r6 cause i know i have better tires brakes suspension etc. even though im sure i could do the same stuff on a stock bike but its all in the conscious i guess .. theyre guys in A on stock bikes with stock pads and suspension im sure ... and good for them lol thats not how my brain functions tho .. im sure some power cups are overkill for my riding style but to each their own lol you guys can sit here and tell me i dont need race tires all u want .. the point of the thread is which tire do i go for .. not "do i keep riding the same tire at N/I level cause ur in A and have them or do i go to race tires"
^^^ +1000 I ran Q2's until mid I.....all at Grattan. Don't think they end there, they will get you to A....they are that good.
thanks JTR and R6CUSH...much help from both now can an admin kill this thread before another heated debate over tires breaks out?
If you think I'm hating you're mistaken, I'm trying to help prevent you from making the same mistakes many of the rest have made in our years of experience. I have ridden just about every type of tire on the market, the difference between a full race tire and a street tire are not as great as you might think, I've run some pretty serious lean angles on q2's, the difference I notice most between a race tire and street tire is the amount of feedback you get (more from the race tire), and how many laps you can put in on a hot sunny day before it starts getting greasy (race tire excels here). However, if you go to a race tire before your pace is fast enough it won't hold heat and you'll have less grip than the street tire. It'll also require a lot more care in pressures, suspension setup, and will wear much faster. You save money and aggravation by sticking with the tire you're on and lean how to feel what it's telling you, if you switch tires all the time you won't develop that relationship with them and learn how to read the tire. In the end, you'll do whatever you want, take the advise here or not, but recognize the comments here are meant to help you and are not a knock on your ability or anything like that. There is a time to switch to race tires, but after watching your video and listening to your experiences I dont think now is the time, it's just a waste of money in my opinion
There was a lot of good information given already. I ran a set of Michelin Power Cup at Grattan yesterday. Came on my "new" ZX6R, had already a day or two on them and they were great all day. I ran in the Intermediate group and the tire was just amazing. Turns basically by itself into the corner has grip to no end. Even pretty hard trail braking (you know the "ohh shit I missed my braking point" moments) was no problem for the tire and didnt move on me once. Reading what R6Cush is doing Lap times on them I will stick to them for as long as I can get them! One thing you have to keep in mind is that the more "Race" you go on the tire the more speed you need to keep them warm. Seen the N group on Saturday it will be very difficult to do so. Also another problem for us average riders with them pure race tires is that the area of "I let go soon" that the tire will tell you is extremely narrow and the sings as mentioned by eE Jeremy will be in short order! A more moderate tire will give you plenty of time to react to the signs of been on the limit or just a bit above.... Just my 2 cents
The point most of these guys should be making to you is that a RACE tire is not going to make you faster. Actually you may be more likely to crash due to your riding style. RACE tires are built for speed and if you do not keep them hot enough on the track they will not offer you the same grip a street tire would. I passed many riders at ACC last month on Dunlop Roadsmart II's . They had stickier tires than me, you just need to feel confident that most street tires are actually pretty superior to tires of yester year. After watching your video I can tell you I would have no issue riding at that pace on my sport touring tires although they do not offer the feedback of a full sport tire. I agree that some tire guys offer crap info, that is why when they were having a tire seminar at ACC I chose not to attend since they had already gave my buddy bogus advice on what pressure he should be running in his rain tires. Good luck on your search for tires, I have never been a fan of the feedback that michelins have given me. I would run a Bridgestone and a Dunlop before that tire just because of the feel they offer ME, cause like you confidence makes a big difference in your ability to ride fast.
i appreciate all feed back ... i have a TD end of the month on a very tight short course (lap times about 1 minute) so im going to keep the pp3's on and go from there ... glad the vid helped and has now helped me realize .. so that brings me to another set of ?'s ... is the q3 superior to pp3? i like the warmup of my pp3 but q3 is said to be able to withstand more heat and not get greasy during hot summer TD's .. since it can hold more heat does it mean it takes longer to get to operating temp? what if i use warmers? (not needed im sure but i have them so why not)
i feel ill be in I very soon if not the 7/6-6 grattan weekend with STT .. sh*t i could be wrong but compared to the riders ive been next to im at a slow intermediate level .. would picking up a set be wise to bring to grattan that weekend? cause im expecting some heat .. 90*to100* days which is when street tires get greasy .. or should i just bring extra dough and talk to the tire guy at the track .. im sure he has those tires right?