I guess my low pressures are why I do not feel the Dunlops are too stiff as some people say they are. All I can say is that they seem to stick like glue and offer me plenty of feedback as to what's going on under me. I think that response is more of a saftey forum letter encase something happens. Even their Race Tire division only recommends 32. Also how hard you push will have a bearing on whether you get the proper gain in psi or maintain the proper temp for the tire to perform in its optimal temperature range for traction.
Or from a better source Dave Moss... Dunlop Q3 track day tire initial evaluation Keigwin’s at The Track Novice School Laguna Seca August 5th & 6th Ambient high 65F Having seen only one set of Dunlop Q3 tires so far this year prior to the School that were on a Triumph Speed Triple, I didn’t have much repetitive data to draw from other than the carcass was completely different to the Q2 and I mean COMPLETELY. Fortunately there were 4 riders using these tires on different bikes with different ability levels:- CBR1000RR, CBR600RR, GSXR 750 and Triumph 675. This would provide me with a great sample between horsepower and rider ability to really get into some data points and find some consistent information. In all cases. riders started with 30psi cold front and rear. As each one came in, tire carcass temps taken with an Intercomp 5mm probe showed 120F front and 140F rear. In all cases, tire pressures were then lowered to 25 rear and 27 front cold for the next session after 45 minutes of cooling time between session (on track was 45 minutes. With the 600, 675 and 750 tires came in cold again after 20 minutes at 135F front and 150F rear with only a 3psi gain cold to hot. All three bikes had 2psi (hot) removed from the tires and were sent back out. At the end of the session with a mandatory fast lap into the pits, temps improved to 150F front and 160F rear. Tires were left to go completely cold during the 45 minutes plus one hour before lunch, and then reset to 21 rear and 23 front cold. The following session saw gains of 6psi on average cold to hot and the same carcass hot temps. With the CBR1000, pressures were brought down to 23 rear and 25 front cold, and after 20 minutes we saw gains of 5psi cold to hot and carcass temps from 150-170F. The most unusual part of the tire wear was that under no circumstances would the rubber ball up on the edges of the tire. For those that have ridden the Pirelli Pro slick, the surface wear looks the same so at all times (to date) all we have seen is a very polished surface indeed. In the afternoon the coastal fog burned off and in one case (the CBR600) the tire gain cold to hot exceeded 7psi, so that bike would have needed an extra 1-1.5psi hot to get the contact patch to the right size to regulate carcass temps. How did I know that? Look at the small debris on the back edge of the outer sipes on the rear tire. For day 2 of the school we started all four bikes at 23 rear and 25 front as ambient temps were predicted to be higher and we saw gains of 4-8psi from the morning to the afternoon. Again, each rider needs to find their own hot pressure that day, that track, with those ambient temps!!! I’m trying to get a set from Dunlop to test myself for a much more thorough review so hopefully that can be done in the next 3-4 weeks. I’ll get that data up right after the test.
I'm not sure what that all means. I've always been told (by STG folks and Michelin folks trackside) to run 30/30 and to leave it. Anyone else doing this? I was also told that these tires shouldn't be run at the lower temps used on the Michelins because it is a stiffer carcass.....
As you can see by going thru this thread that there are many different opinions on what the recommended pressure for the Q3 is. I am showing you the article that I used as a reference point for running the Q3 for the first time at the track. Using a starting pressure of 25 f/r in the morning I continually check pressures thru the day since I personally am looking for a 29/30 psi HOT in the front and anywhere from 27-30 HOT rear when I come off the track and check pressure. Honestly every rider in my opinion is gonna be different. Kinda goes with the advice that you should NOT be running FULL RACE tires unless you are capable of pushing hard enough to maintain the proper heat range in the tire. Just like a street tire can over heat and become greasy race tires can be like riding on ice to a guy that pulls them off the warmers and then goes out and rides at a novice pace. While there are some rules regarding optimal pressures for tires I look at tires as an extension of my suspension. Now whether that is correct to not I am not sure but I do know that running a stiffer tire requires adjustment to the suspension especially if you are coming off a more pliable tire like a Michelin. Short version is when I asked trackside what pressure they would recommend they said they had NO clue really since they deal mostly Michelins, so I based my pressures off that article from Dave Moss and the tires have performed flawlessly. So until something changes I will be starting at my usual pressures and adjusting accordingly to ambient temp as well as pressure when coming in hot.
dave moss is a racer and the michelin folks are michelin folks, not dunlop folks .. i ran 25r/27f cold to start then with warmers at 170* and hot pressures off warmers at 27-28r and 29-30f with no slipping no greasing no problems at all and GREAT wear, dragunslayer got the same results and dave moss did too ... trust the facts and the people who have personally tested them ... my $0.02
So if I understand you correctly, we are looking for hot pressure (coming in after a session) to be at those levels (29-30F & 27-28R) and adjusting initial pressure according to ambient temp and conditions to get there?? I don't use warmers.
That is exactly what he is saying it's hard to find guys at the track running Dunlops to get feedback since Michelin takes such an aggressive approach to trackdays over Dunlop. I gotta laugh I e-mailed Dunlop whating to know why they do not have a presence at the tracks the way Michelin does and there response to me was to ask their race tire supplier to show up at the events I attend. Not really the answer I was looking for. I guess Dunlop is just happy with the small slice of pie that they have. I cannot speak for other track orginizations but at an STT event it kinda sucks if you wanna run Dunlops Q3's since most of the services that service there events are Michelin only. Of course they did say they would start supporting GPA's if memory serves me at Barber since they have to haul them around for Jason and Elena anyway for their practice for AMA events. I guess when I get to a level that I need those I will be covered but right now I do not see the need or have a need for warmers since my Q3's are usually pretty good after a lap to two laps and that is going out on a FRESH set usually.
I hear ya, Although I brought a new set of Q3's to Grattan with me on Sunday and the Michelin guys were happy to pop them on after lunch for $20/tire w/balancing. You have to take your wheels off of course. He did bitch a little about how hard the carcass was because the bead took 68psi to pop on both sides and he had to re-grease the sides a couple times. You're right though, hard to feel confident about any info you get trackside regarding Dunlop tires. I started a thread a while back asking about peoples opinions of Q3's vs. PP3's. Some interesting comments and you were on that thread. I think most people who try them are impressed with how good a tire is it for the money. Hell of a value. Some folks on my link commented that they are mid pack A riders and do fine with the Q3's. I run a slow A pace and have never had an issue, I really like them. I'm sure I'll bump up to Super Sports someday but for now they are serving me well. I will start following these recommendations and see how it goes.
You could also email Steve Brubaker at RTS, the national distributor for Dunlop. He was always very informative when he used to come to a different track orgs events. steve@dunlopracing.com
The only time I ever have to go that high with tire pressure is if the drop center of the wheel is not lubed properly or the the temp is in the 50 degree range. There is a reason you do not feel like you so iding all around the track on them until you actually are. To be honest I usually only ask opinions from others just to see what they say. I have not talked a lot to people at the track but it does amaze me how many people just run a tire because everyone else is running it and have done ZERO research into what the tires needs are to perform properly. I commend you for asking, just keep in mind your results may vary. The needs of a guy on a liter bike are gonna be different than a guy on a 600 and tire pressures apply in my opinion.
I can't argue the sticking like glue and feedback comment at all. So far I am really impressed with these… You are probably correct in that it is a standard response on the pressures. I've not really got a chance to ride on a hot day yet so the extra pressure may end up being way to high once the temps start to rise, and of course the several other factors that go into how much pressure rise we will see that you mentioned above. Now that it is getting warmer, and seeing what some of you guys are running, I think I will drop a little out, and see how they perform for my riding style and pace….
I have been running Q3's since they first came out. big guy fast novice to slow intermediate pace rider, on a SV1000. I have been just slightly higher than those pressures noted above. I was coming off track at 31 rear hot, and 30 front hot. I usually started at 27 cold in the morning and adjusted as the day temp warmed up. Due too my pace I am only getting about 3 degree rise in temp. As I continue to improve and pick up my pace I have been told that hot pressure of 29 rear and 27 front maybe a better setup. But that is with a 4 -5 hot pressure gain. Take that information for what it is worth.
I sent an email to Steve at Dunlop Racing and this was his reply: 30/30 or 32/32 is proper for track tire PSI on Q3's. http://dunlopracing.com/technical-info/#TP Certainly some people have their own ideas and can post what they want. The Q3 is NOT an N-Tec construction and is not intended to be run at low pressures. Running that low on the front is NOT recommended and I have never had a fast factory rider use that low a PSI in the front. Frankly if someone is playing with pressure, trying to squeeze the last 0.2 seconds per lap out of a set of Q3's, their time and $ would be better spent running a set of D211GPA. If you want information on Dunlop tires, feel free to ask me or call me. I would NEVER go to a forum to get tire advice. I am here to help. I also need to point out you were happy with the Q3 and had no problem with the 30/30 pressure. Why would you go to a forum and take advice when things are working well? No need to fix something that is not broken. Best, Steve
I guess my only comment to this is gonna be what is he talking?? HOT PRESSURE OR COLD PRESSURE since he does not clarify. If he is talking HOT pressure then I would say that we are all within 1-2 psi of what he is referring to. What I find funny is that he pretty much gives the advice of set it and forget it which I do not agree with but hey he's the their expert and I reserve the right to run what works for me. Of course I tend to learn the hard way sometimes. Also note that there is a 2psi difference in what he recommends so as far as I am concerned with the way my tire is wearing I have ZERO issues sticking with what I have been running. If I was running to low a temp for the tire there would be bluing going on and my tires stay nice and black the whole time with zero cold tear. Track surface as well as ambient temperature dictate more what your cold pressure will be.
Shinkos will also feel fine at a certain pace. Truth is, 99% of the time, a few lbs difference at anything but a good A pace or race pace, won't be noticeable by the average mortal.