whats there to over think though?? there are coaches everywhere that you can ask if you're having a problem, its as simple as going up and asking, i honestly can not count the amount of times i walked over to steve p's pit and rattled off 19 million questions at once & all he would do is simplify them to me & i walk away thinking and saying "well no shit.." being down south, there are a ton of coaches down there that are pretty damn good, Trevor, one of the first guys i EVER worked with when i started track riding is great & he's got a good crew down there. Up north, jeez i can't even count or rattle off all of the names of the ppl who are quite fast & knowledgeable. Dustin Boyd a former national championship winner, Steve, jeremy, chris, troy, etc.. ALL of them will simplify track riding to you, its just a matter of walking up and asking them for help. So no, adding a 4th group to the day or making the day more money won't help, its a matter of that humbling effect to go ask, after all thats what they are there for. Steve holds advanced meetings for the morning time to help those guys out & yet the only ppl i ever see in there are the ppl who are constantly going faster than most in advanced, because it truly is that simple as asking questions and finding out how someone else may do it. Over-analyzing and over thinking is more detrimental than traffic.
Christ, where did you learn how to ride? I've seen mules cut a better line. Faster too. Did you get your trackday license out of a gumball machne? I mean seriously. You couldn't hit the apex if theire was a flashing neon sign there.... Oh, wait. My bad! :lmao:
Didn't mean to imply that the flags were not necessary. But since you were not there, doesn't seem proper for you to respond to my question. No offense intended.
Great point! We don't bite, so come and grab us! I love a ton of questions! No matter how small or embarrassing you think the question may be, the chances are we have already heard it before and can help you through it.
My first and only I day was 9/29 at ACC N and all the coaches were praising it as a freakishly behaved and respectful group of I riders. I have friends though who said the early Aug weekend at ACC N was a bit out of control with lots of guys getting stood up and stuffed. So I guess I got lucky with a good first taste. I'll have to see what next year brings.
I wasn't there but have heard your comment (or similar) before. It always bothers me as I have had the displeasure of seeing people die and I have been the guy who was scraped up off the track. So I like to put the perspective on it of a bit of time wasted vs what it was wasted for :thumb:
I do agree with you, no argument. It was simply a question. Notice I also said err on the side of caution. I do track days with another group as well. The protocol is typically this; If a rider is not up with a thumbs up within 10 seconds, the ambulace rolls out. If rider is clear of the impact zone and standing firm, the session continues with yellow flag in affected corner. I think STT does a great job, no question.
There are some almost instant flags at Barber also. One is turn one. A lot of crashes there wind up in the impact zone (a few less since they expanded the run off) It is also blind and fast. Not sure it is still the norm but in WERA racing which red flags are slow they used to be quick there. Coming up over turn four could also result in a real ugly pile up so they might be a bit quick there. One thing at Barber is that a bunch of turns require you to commit close to or after you can see the turn. Add in the higher chance of target fixation as you drop down the groups and it becomes an issue.
Great point Jeff!!! When I first started doing trackdays, i kinda just minded my own business thinking they would come tell me if something was wrong, and they did......when it was a gross safety issue either riding error or judgement error........but I didnt really enjoy myself or learn ANYTHING until i started to actively solicit advice or put some effort into asking questions. Thats the safety staffs call based on experience a familiarity with the facility and the crash circumstances.
I would have expected it to be the corner works and I know Walter knows how to maintain a safe track.
Red flag always has to come from race control or I'd assume whatever that is in our world. It's a full track signal so one corner may be able to get on the mic and highly suggest it, but even that message needs to have been received before they can throw the red. Saw this process first hand at the June Sprints at RA in 2011 - my truck captain and the corner workers were yelling for race control to throw a red for a full track blockage after the kink when a GT1 car dropped a wheel and pin-balled halfway to Canada corner. The process to throw a red (in an SCCA National race granted) surprised me in how long it took when it seemed like there was no time decide. Aside from the question if there are too many reds due to skill or whatever - for the rider down and the people charged with responding, we need to take it on the chin as part of a fun day and not a nationally sanctioned race.
Trev, In the interest of sharing opinions, I've been thinking about this weekend a lot. I, like many, was very disappointed by the number of accidents, that led to red flags over the weekend. There's been a lot of talk about people riding over their heads and causing the issues. I happened to be the recipient of two "talking to's" over the weekend myself, although I never so-much-as slipped a wheel. I agreed with the coach that my pass could have been better executed, but I felt it was the safest thing at the time, and it didn't cause any other rider to do anything. I'd really enjoy seeing the actual numbers... a true problem solving process starts with agreeing on the problem, which we've done. Now, gathering data, which STT is doing. Is it possible to share here the raw crash data? How many crashes, what was the time of day, condition of bike, time riding prior to the crash, opinion of the rider, opinion of the observer, how many times had they been to that track before, how many track days had they done before. Just an informal discussion between myself and the OP deduced there were an inordinate amount of people that were there for their first time, had traveled a long way (I met Michigan, Wisconsin and New Jersey by Friday night), and really enthusiastic (as they should be) about thier last big blast of the year). I haven't heard it mentioned yet, but one of the most telling moments of the weekend involved a female rider that I see at every Barber and Jennings event I go to. I think her name is Elaine? (I'm really bad with names) She's a great rider, and always very smooth and consistent in Intermediate, I've literally ridden with her for years now. She decided that the group was so bad that she self-bumped herself down to Novice to get a safe, fun environment. I was shocked, and a bit ashamed of our group to have that happen.