Slow down to go fast? Fine. Thats not what I'm talking about. Yes he could have easily made that corner.... if he had the skill set developed which she doesn't! Encouraging him to ride over his head because he "could have made it" is stupid
Who is encouraging him to ride over his head?? We aren't telling the guy to go faster or brake later, unless you're reading another thread that I'm not aware of ?? What I am saying to him is that he should build up his skillset because if he does he could have made the corner. I stated that his bike had the ability but he lacked the capability to do it. Again, NO ONE is saying him running off was a bad idea (at least I'm not). We are saying "here are areas to work on so you can avoid that"... Which I don't think is stupid... I think a lot can be learned and at times info is translated differently. I am not a guru on this by any means but having been through it (at that very corner as a matter of fact) and coached well, I can relate to the guy and that situation.. Once I started to adjust my markers, slow my mind down and look through the corner (without fixating on the grass when I blew the corner) I was able to make it come together. It took someone telling me "hey you could have made that and here's how".. All in all, you go very fast and smooth, you have more to give in terms of feedback than I would for sure. :cheers: Let me add that I don't disagree with the fact that he made a wise choice given his situation and skill set by running off track... But he still could have made it ..lol
I'm not trying to single out you or anyone else who posted up in this thread. All I'm saying is I read lots of comments that gave the impression to me that people were encouraging this guy ride over his head next time and try and make the corner when he wasn't comfortable doing so. That's a recipe for crashing
FWIW - I had the attitude that off track was a safer/better option than working harder/more lean to make the corner (after already screwing up to some degree). Unfortunately, that corner was the exit of the carosuel at Road America and entering the grass at ~110 with the bike chicane coming up meant my options were to stomp the rear brake and force a crash or t-bone the guys that were already in the braking zone. I got a broken hand and a little while to think about all of the bad decisions I made. And the good one which was to toss myself on the ground and be the only one to pay for my mistakes.
My opinion is that the track is a known surface, off the track on the other hand is a crap shoot, it might be smooth dry grass, it might be wet grass, it might have holes and bumps all over, it might have a tire wall, it might have a tree, etc etc. My advice is always to keep your bike on the track if at all possible, I'd rather a simple lowside on track than launching myself to the moon off track. And I agree with robbie, don't ride over your head and it probably wont be an issue. What do you learn riding at 100% or more of your ability? Not a whole lot really. Now slow it down to 90% of your ability and you have time to think about the next corner, practice your strategy for improving that next corner, think about if your line in the last corner was good or if you think you can improve it next time around. If all you're thinking about while riding on the track is "HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT" you're not going to improve much.
You never know pigs might fall from the sky. In this case the grass was dry, there was no tire wall, there are no trees, no potholes and he rode back on the track without incident. Just because the track is a known surface doesn't mean "go ahead and turn in even though you don't think you should"
But in a panic situation do you think you have time to assess all that? You are already at a point where you are unsure and having trouble making a decision, trying to decide if the grass is clear just isn't going to happen. You already know the pavement is safe
The downside to a runoff is that things can become very random. This sport is a lot of fun but in a fraction of a second, a mistake can become very costly in $ and in health. :crutch:
My accident taught me that you (or at least I) couldn't possibly assess everything. I saw the grass, my angle of exit, the room I had to the tires, the bridge enbankment...I just underestimated the speed at which I left the track and my ability to scrub enough to enter the track safely again. I did assess exiting the track in a heartbeat and deemed it safe...I won't make that decision so lightly ever again. :crutch:
You guys think it's better for him to throw it in and see what happens rather than abort mission and ride off?this makes no sense to me. He already feels like he's about to crash why encourage him to take that a step further?
I'm with Jeremy on this one. I feel that running off into the grass is more often than not a bad option. As we know, our bikes are more capable than us, and this is especially true for novice riders. Once a rider (of any skill level) realizes that he or she is deeper/faster into a corner than they are comfortable with, the choice is to either: a) Turn the bike harder than you ever have before and hope to make it, or b) Stand the bike up and run off track. It is important to keep in mind that BOTH of these options present an increased risk for a crash. It seems that some people feel that the option to turn the bike and pray to make it is 'riding over your head'. However, getting into the corner so deep that you need to make this decision is when you are 'riding over your head'. Once you're at that point in the corner, you're simply making a decision (or instinctual reaction) to minimize your crash risk. Running off into the grass isn't intrinsically safer or smarter. Our bikes don't have MX suspensions or knobbies - you might crash, or you might not. Personally, I highly recommend the turn-and-hope-to-make it option, for the following reasons: a) Turning the bike in will scrub speed. Turning the bike will lengthen the line of you being on the track surface, allowing you to slow more. b) You will be lower to the ground. In the event that you do not make it, your crash will likely be slower (see point a) and you will not be touching the throttle, so any sort of crash other than a lowside is extremely unlikely. c) You know the track surface and what it can offer when it comes to traction (at least for a moderately experienced rider). No unknowns, as touched upon by Jeremy. d) Almost all racetracks that STT runs have runoff in mind. So if you crash while on or near the race line, aiming where you should be, the likely direction of your crash will keep you away from seen and undseen dangers - barriers, bushes, giant divots in the grass, etc. e) You will probably make it! A slower rider has TONS of lean angle and grip left in store. And by the time a rider is experienced and fast enough to get the point where they don't have a lot of room for error, their inputs are accurate and smooth to the point where they don't generally make large corner-entry-speed errors. One thing to add is that, yes, sometimes it's hard to actively 'make a decision' in this kind of situation - our reptile brains take over in moments of panic, and the choice is made for us. We're human, and we can't fault someone for reacting instinctively - like a teenager stabbing the brakes when the rear wheels of his car slide, instead of steering into the direction of the slide. However, it's a bad instinct, and if you don't fight it, it becomes a bad habit. Part of this sport is controlling your own mind.
I think some riders work up to their abilities slowly, so they approach their limits smoothly. Other riders are bold, brave and willing to find their limits by having an incident. In my experience, Autobahn is the track I frequent where the latter happens most. That's just my experience. I appreciate aniolpl's bravery and bold style, but I prefer to be on track with riders that work up to speed methodically, so they don't find themselves blowing a corner and riding off track. Lots are faster than me, and lots are slower... but if we ride smooth lines, improving our lines, more speed just happens without damaging the bodies and equipment as much.
Not sure what happened here! Here is a clip from Sunday's action, close call, but nobody got hurt! Just wondering what might have happened or what the thought process was, I seriously don't think the rider meant to get caught up like this! Good thing bloose noticed what was going on before it became a traffic collision,lol! Or maybe he didn't, cause he does keep his eyes nowhere he is going!:getdown: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AHFGL167PXc
I personally do not have the $money$ to spend fixing up the bike after every other weekend. I have meet guys who have came up through the ranks with me in STT over the last 6 years. I see a trend, and I might be wrong, but it appears to me that the guys who go out and push themselves every weekend get really fast really quick. However, I see a ton of crashes out of the same bunch and a ton of "run-offs" out of the same bunch. That being said, I have seen some of them go from "N" to WERA racer in 2 years. I have the desire to advance slowly and keep the pretty bike - pretty.