Lorenzo / Marquez / Rossi

Discussion in 'STT General Discussion' started by Booma, Oct 22, 2015.

  1. kisertn

    kisertn What's an apex?

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    Agree with you. Again, I am no fan of MM - but so far every negative critique of him I have seen is based on opinion, not fact. I'd love for someone to give me a fact so that I can continue to despise him - but right now (with the facts I have been given) I feel he's being unjustly maligned.
     
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  2. badmoon692008

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    Same here
     
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  3. Liquidsilver

    Liquidsilver What's an apex?

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    I fixed that for you. LOL.

    I saw it the way Pridmore did, exactly. He gives Rossi a 20% chance... probably right, if not a bit optimistic.
     
  4. SotF

    SotF n00b

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    Sorry man, but are you ignoring the facts listed in some of these articles? MM clearly was not holding proper Body Position ONLY WHEN JLo or Rossi were behind him. Everyone saw this.

    You can believe his tire issue thing but Dani, who has the most chronic case of cold tires ever seen, was racing just fine in the hottest, muggiest GP on the entire schedule. Dani ran flag to flag in front...

    If being half a second off of race pace ONLY when VR is behind MM isn't evidence enough, then nothing will convince you aside from in helmet audio of MM going "yessss Rossi, slow down so JLo can win".


    Was what Rossi did a dick move? Yea. MM decided to go down when he turned into Rossi instead of running off. He could have ran off, lost a few seconds, and placed 4th... although he probably would have caught back up to Rossi and he would have put down seriously hot laps catching up (quite obviously speculation).

    I do also think that a few of the passes MM was kicking out the rear tire at Rossi to create an Argentina like incident. THAT is opinion, go back and watch the turn 15 and you will see him do it for yourself.

    I do think Rossi deserves some repercussion, but they are throwing away a great championship and letting MM get off free for shitty behavior. Go ahead and claim it inst a rule but then you are also taking all integrity and honor out of the sport if you allow "blockers". This "cock blocking" has never been an issue before but we are ruining all of the work of the 2015 MGP season by vilifying Rossi and making Marc out to be the "innocent" victim. All because of the "rules".
     
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  5. kisertn

    kisertn What's an apex?

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    Well, I won't say you are incorrect but, I have seen none of these "facts" substantiated by the numbers presented to me. What I see above is unsubstantiated facts and interpretation of facts. And that's fine, perhaps the "unsubstantiation" is my problem and I just am not seeing it. And the interpretation of facts is allowed of course.

    But interpreting MM body position is... odd, in my opinion. And to say "Everbody saw this" is hyperbole. In fact, I have yet to read anyone commenting on this at all till now.

    As for Dani making it on his tires, true. But Dani doesn't ride like MM. Isn't even in the same weight class as far as I know. So, apples to oranges imho.

    "He was .5 second off race pace only when behind VR" - that is not supported by any of the data or analysis I have read by those who are paid to do such things. Might be true, but I've not seen that proven.

    I'm not here to convince you to see otherwise but, I am not convinced that MM is getting anything but a bad rap. At this point, my only reason for caring at all is because I have to make a decision as to whether to watch the race this weekend. I won't know till it happens, but I think i'm blowing it off. I want to watch a race, not a circus, and that's all I feel it is going to be. I think I'm going to use the time to go out to the garage and remove all of the VR and JL stickers from the windscreen of my bike.
     
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  6. 196paul

    196paul Track Day Junkie

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    I'm going to watch the circus! It's not over yet because anything can happen, just ask Nicky Hayden! Yes, it's disappointing to see our heroes showing their emotions but I still like them all despite their differences in opinions about what this season has become and it's truly a shame that it has been spoiled in this manner! At the end of the day, there will be a champion and both are deserving of it because of their equally great talent and hard work on the track. I've heard a lot of talk about MotoGp's demise from the fallout of this season and the eventual departure of VR, I doubt that very seriously. I think Motocross/Supercross is still alive even though Jeremy McGrath and Ricky Carmichael are retired....
     
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  7. PacMan

    PacMan Rides with no training wheels

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  8. 196paul

    196paul Track Day Junkie

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  9. tnskydivr

    tnskydivr Shut up and Jump!
    STT Staff

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    Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall of THAT meeting...
     
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  10. SotF

    SotF n00b

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    I do not think it is odd at all to interpret his positioning on the bike. You will not be able to go as deep into a corner if you cross your body across the bike. STT teaches this in Novice every track weekend. Marc was perched up and running wide constantly... Everyone can clearly see MM was not holding his usual form. I have watched it several times and the difference in his own riding vs what he usually does is substantial.

    MM out weighs Dani (I think by as much as 15-20 pounds), he rides the tires more on the edge than Dani does as well. All of this would point to MM having higher tire temperatures than Dani. To cry about cold tires after the fact is a bad joke. On top of all that, it was hot and muggy like it is every year in Sepang. Dani has said that he loves Sepang because he does not have to wait for tires to warm up. It makes no sense that MM would have tire temperature issues on this circuit.

    The other thing that bothered me, and this is truly an assumption. Is how MM reacted right after the crash. The last few crashes he has had this season he FREAKED OUT. The announcers even stated he was having a "teenage tantrum" in he crash a few races before Sepang. However, in Sepang, he just calmly walked over to his bike, got it upright and went to the pits. IMO this is a reflection of his state of mind at the time. I do not think he had any problem messing with Rossi (again) and going down in that race was the best possible outcome for MM to achieve his goal of messing with Rossi. It was obvious what Mark Webb was going to do, so in that exact moment MM knew he won.
     
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  11. Liquidsilver

    Liquidsilver What's an apex?

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    C'mon man! How can you miss it? ;)
     
  12. Booma

    Booma What's an apex?

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    I thought the same thing, even when he walked into the garage he didn't seem upset at all. My feeling was, for him it was "mission accomplished"....
     
  13. SotF

    SotF n00b

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    I watched Argentina again a couple of days ago. Even though he was still in contention for the Championship, he was so incredibly mad when the incident with Rossi happened. Personally, I would have been twice as pissed at Sepang vs Argentina if I was MM. Regardless of my chances at the Championship, I would want to finish out every race on top. The kid has epic talent and should be doing his best. I still believe that is not what he is doing. I think if Rossi pissed him off, his goal should be to demolish every record that he has rather than stop him from getting number 10.

    The only thing that will turn me away from the MGP at this point is if MM continues to "have problems" up until Rossi reaches him during the race. However, I NEED to see this race and the conclusion of the MGP 2015 season.
     
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  14. PacMan

    PacMan Rides with no training wheels

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  15. flylikechris

    flylikechris Wait, how tall are you?

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    Why did MotoGP decide on thw punishment? Why did FIM agree? Why did CAS also agree?

    Because they are looking at it objectively, and not relying on all of this speculation that some people want to call "facts".

    That link makes me happy. And it proves 3x over that rossi is in the wrong here.
     
  16. Booma

    Booma What's an apex?

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    Shout out to Nicky Hayden, who will be running his last race in MotoGP on Sunday.

    And in other news....

    Lorenzo continues to step on his own d*ck by submitting a written statement to the court of arbitration against Rossi's appeal, thereby attracting the enmity of half of Europe. Not to mention losing a sponsor. I can't believe he would do that when it was so highly unlikely that Rossi's ruling would be overturned. Just stupid IMO.

    "Lorenzo has the most to gain from Rossi's penalty and submitted a written statement to the Court of Arbitration for Sport that ruled on Thursday against the Italian's appeal for a stay of execution.The controversy has caused huge ructions in Spain and Italy, where Rossi is one of the most popular and high profile sportsmen."
     
  17. Liquidsilver

    Liquidsilver What's an apex?

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    Rossi apologized for a "gesture he make from the podium."

    I understand that some of you think he's either an immaculate angel or the spawn of Satan... but what gesture did he make that he's apologizing for?
     
  18. Booma

    Booma What's an apex?

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    It was Lorenzo who apologized for making a gesture. He gave a "thumbs down" gesture on the podium when Rossi was handed the 3rd place trophy.....
     
  19. Liquidsilver

    Liquidsilver What's an apex?

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    Ah. Thank you. Yeah, I think the 'douche bag of the day award' has to go to Lorenzo. Sheesh.
     
  20. SotF

    SotF n00b

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    He also argued about the penalty and thought it should be harsher. He also tried to get involved in the CAS judgement and got denied.

    I want to know what HRC's "evidence" is that shows what "really happened". FIM and Race Direction have called Marc out quietly but HRC is still saying he is an innocent victim.
     

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