in all fairness it was the advanced group that kept having the big crashes that caused lengthly cleanups and ambulances to roll. so the advanced rides that crashed are the ones that caused you the minimal track time. the NV group probably didnt lose out on too much track time because they werent causing red flags. i did the 1st session after lunch (which was at 2:30 and was 15 min.) with no incidents. the 4 15min sessions after lunch were announced so that NV could get back the session they missed before lunch to due to the multi bike crash in advanced (not being a dick) how do you propose that we do that? i dont know you or your ability. ive never seen you ride. you could have done 10 trackdays before this one and still only be NV material. so you cant go by experience. the only way to know everyones skill and ability level is to spend the entire morning having every single rider go out with a coach so they can asses your ability or to do qualifying. both are completely illogical. so that brings us to the most obvious solution. personal responsibility. YOU know your ability and skill. YOU know what group youre most comfortable in. so its up to YOU to sign up for that group. if your group is sold out then dont just sign up for another group that you dont belong in just so you can ride. overall i think it was a pretty good day. everyone got into the track fast. parking was painless tech went very quickly we did registration the night before ran 2 nv programs gave out track maps had GREAT weather and a GREAT track
Well said Brian... There were a lot of improvements the STT guys worked out for this event. Pity much of that seems to be lost in the flurry of negative comments. :cry: [/quote]
Sorry you had a bad day, I did also. its really difficult when so many people are hell bent on crashing. 60 people in advance is very possible. lets do some math. 45 riders plus 15 coaches equals 60 advance riders on track. most coaches do not wear their vest in Advanced so it may look like lots of riders and no coaches but they are there.
65 riders might be fine for Advance, but it gets a little crowded in Novice when you start to lap the first-timers...things bunch up real quick. And...negative comments are a necessary evil. It helps improve the overall experience for everyone. "Lessons Learned" and all. As for this nutty Novice rider, I'll be back...and I have faith that the STT crew will improve things that need improving. Cheers! Brad
Now we are blaming advanced? Then why were we sitting in the pits for 10-20 minutes per session waiting to get on track?? EVERY one is to blame.
50/50/50 FWIW, Barber a 2 mile track runs like a top with 40/42/42 Our last Full Monti event in 2009 was excellent.
The crashes that occurred in I group were not because of congestion, they were just stupid mistakes at high speed where the rider took himself out. Although I was forced onto the grass by a rider that washed out attempting an inside pass, all the other crashes I saw appeared to be self-takeouts. Should we blame a track that allows very high speeds, or should we look at our skills and ask ourselves if we were riding over our heads? There is something about the last ride of the season that invites riders to take big risks, but what we saw on Columbus Day was pretty extreme. Jim B GSXR 600 #99
take a look at this video. It looks like Advanced group from mondays track day. I do not see overcrowding but the red flag does come out after only a few laps, what a shame someone had to run off track. Too many times riders went off track and fell at slow speeds resulting in only bruised egos. I witnessed more then once the red flag came out because mmc wanted riders to quickly hop the armco barrier and when they did not the red flag came out. When you crash get out of the crash zone. Most likely the session will continue if you get to a safe place and show you are not hurt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzVTwLlMwvw
We went to a TD last year at Thunderhill California and they had the policy if you crashed in the morning, your bike sat till lunch...in the afternoon, it sat till the end of the day. Of course they would move the bikes if needed out of the crash zone. Their opinion was if you crashed, why should all the other riders lose time because of you. One morning by lunchtime, one corner had 4 or five bikes laying there off one corner, but no one was injured so there were no red flags. Everybody but the crashers was happy! :wink: Tdub
Hmmm....you disagree with the whole statement??? So, STT coaching staff and directors CAN ride your motorcycle for you. The track was dirty. There were no track maps or corner workers. There were no trained medical or fire workers. And, worst of all, the weather sucked.... Wow...I was at Monti on the 11th. Sure glad I didn't go to whatever day you were at...! :wink: Or, do you disagree with the last line about bringing problem riders to the attention of the staff? Perhaps the STT staff should have been more aggressive about having moving riders out of Advanced or getting the asshats to sit out. I imagine there will be considerable discussion this winter about these suggestions: 1. Limiting group size to allow movement up and down. When every group is full, this becomes difficult. It also is a financial discussion. How to balance profit with customer satisfaction! Obviously these are linked. 2. Some practical way of assessing a riders ability. Some organizations such as STT allow self assessment. Other require proof such as demonstrated skills. Honestly, I have not seen the self assessment as an issue at any of the other STT days I have participated in... 3. From a parochial perspective, I hope to participate in what we can do to improve the Novice Program for the Full Monti. It's too long a track, with too few laps, to simply turn a true novice loose after lunch. For the record however, I do not believe there was a single red flag in Novice. Our time on track was limited by the crash fest in Advanced. And most of the folks I talked to, while not pleased about this, understood that the first priority is to care for the injured rider. No matter how long it takes.... Now that is an actionable suggestion. Thanks for the helpful feedback!!!
And that makes much more sense. Rather than spend 10+ minutes collecting riders and bikes after every session just spend 2 minutes collecting riders only and use the lunch hour collecting all the bikes. I'd rather piss off the 10 crashers than the 140 riders that didn't crash.
i agree with this completely, and in fact; after the second red flag dave said this was what he was going to do. but that very next session i was informed it was actually a coach who went down so they didnt stick to that policy, nor was it maintained at any part of the day. if a rider and bike can get themselves off the track at the end of a session then so be it, but if it requires the crash truck they should wait til lunch at the least. but really; i think that the lunch HOUR from 1-2 should have been skipped, and sessions should have kept going to make up for lost time. when there is theoretically 40 minutes to rest between sessions there is no reason to have an hour long lunch break. i would have felt very happy with STT management if they would have done this for all of their paying customers. afterall, for all of us who kept the rubber side down we really got short changed on track time for the day and it certainly isnt cheap at $175 for the day. i also think their should have been a second riders meeting addressing the issues after the second red flag on the warmup lap.
i have no dog in this fight and was not there but why is it up to the customer to police his own group? is this what the coaches are there for? to take action after a customer complains? surely this is not stt policy
This is not optional. The lunch hour is for track staff mostly (cornerworkers, track control, emergency personel ect).
By the way more then a few STT coaches who worked crash truck did not get a lunch break, they were out picking up motorcycles two at a time.
It was this mentality of making up for lost time at other peoples expense that added to the crashing. Here bmfgsxr you mention on the gixxer forum you rode in the Intermediate group to get additional track time (you are a Advanced rider). When riders willingly break the rules they put other people in harms way. Here is what you said- "as was also mentioned already, the last session of the day we were able to get out for about 8-10 minutes in the intermediate group prior to the last advanced session and it was relatively empty, and for the most part everyone was evenly matched." Clearly you and other riders were making poor choices on and off the track that lead to a day full of crashing and red flags.
We used to have this policy, in fact we started it ten+ years ago. Many tracks (Barber for one...) will not allow a bike to set out until lunch but other tracks will. This policy is fine unless it is a rider who might have found himself off track through no fault of his own (run wide) or has a mechanical. To leave a mecahnical out stranded for half a day is not good customer service or fair. Some tracks like Road American and Roat Atlanta have access routes that allow bikes to be piked up without going on-track. There is no one perfect solution.