Common sense says that I disagreed with the part in Bold. Hence the bold letters. :roll: Customers spend good money to use the track so they can ride their bikes, work on their skills, test setups etc. Coaches can use the track for all of those same purposes but instead of paying for the track time, they are required to work/coach/police/instruct or whatever you want to call it. Sure, if there is something strange/erratic going on then yeah, somebody should report it; that is common sense. But it is not the individuals job to police the different groups and move people around accordingly. That is what the coaches get "paid" for.
In my oinion it goes like this... Customer should sign up for the correct group. We should have done a better job of policing the group. Riders can assist us with obvious "shouldn't be out there in X group" riders but the primary task of this falls on our Coaching staff, NOT the customer.
To those wanting to leave bikes out until lunch time or the end of the day in addition to what was pointed out above: 1. There may be debris or fluids on the track that need to be cleaned up as well as picking up the bike. 2. You can't leave the bike in an impact zone, so at a minimum you have to allow time for the corner worker(s) to pick up the bike and get it to a safe place. If the grass is wet and / or it is laying on a hillside, a corner worker may need help in getting the bike picked up and moved to a safe location, so you might be sending a truck out there to assist with this anyway.
link dont try to clown me man because your barking up the wrong tree, and you are attempting to spin doctor what i said. the fact is that regardless of the riders doing the actual crashing, the management by stt on the day was extremely poor at best when it could have easily been handled better to create a safer environment for everyone while providing more tracktime. first of all we didnt sneak. we were allowed by stt staff to go out when we clearly made it known we were advanced riders, and due to the lack of tracktime we got throughout day an exception was made for a few of us. this hardly creates a more unsafe condition in my opinion because of the fact that we are more experienced riders we can more easily get past a slower rider safely. so your argument holds about as much water as storm grate. the real problem was that the event was overbooked, riders signing up for a group ABOVE (not below) their ability and sessions under policed by coaches. now, in regards to the responses regarding lunch break. i can understand the point about corner workers, etc... but perhaps a compromise could have been made such as cutting lunch down to 30 minutes. lets face it, the reality is that with all the down time throughout the day there was plenty of time for staff members to grab a snack during the long breaks under red flags. not saying that the people who actually work at the track dont deserve their lunch break, but for the sake of the paying customers sometimes compromises must be made. ive attended trackdays with other organizations that due to problems in the morning ran sessions right through lunch (at the same track) so it certainly is a viable option.
btw, what were my choices off the track that lead to a day full of crashing... and for that matter what were my choices on the track that lead to any crashing? thats a pretty fucked up statement to make man as i wasnt near a single incident the entire (less than a freaking hour) day on the track so do not try to drag me down with the riders who were riding over their heads or signed up for the wrong groups because you allow people to self classify themselves. this has nothing to do with me man so you should retract your false and misleading statements.
The trackday organizer may not have any say at all about the track staff's schedule. This may differ from track to track. When the organizer wishes to alter the schedule, they can request that the track staff accomidates them, but they are not required to. A good example of this is to push lunch back or make it earlier if there is an extended delay or because of weather.
Your choice of riding in Intermediate in addition to Advanced is against our rules and if caught you would have been thrown out. This was a bad decision you made off track. I am not picking a fight with with you. I dont know you but I do generally have a good opinion of you as a competent and experience racer and track day rider. I am not accusing you of causing any crashes personally but your statement of breaking the rules in order to reclaim lost track time demonstrates the mind set of many riders of that day. This was not a typical day for STT.
thats understood, but my point was that we ran sessions right through lunch with a different organization at mmc, so i would imagine it would be possible/feasible with stt at mmc. not saying it should be required or whether it should be mandated, just saying when you have a crazy day that everyone is losing out on, compromises should be made to try to give the customer the best possible trackday. this is one idea i came up with that would have helped everyone feel more satisfied with the day.
Or we could have had more crashing and no lunch for MMC staff and STT coaches. We were hoping lunch would have given everyone a break and a chance to reset and I think it did. We had better sessions later in the day.
Here's a thought... Lets agree that there was no evil intent from anyone. Lets agree that the day did not go as anyone would have wished Lets agree that there are several ideas in this thread worthy of exploring Lets agree that, as a format, this isn't the best place to make real positive progress. It's a great place to get the bitches on the table and give people a chance to vent. If I were a principal, I would invite a few of the individuals that attended this event to a conference call to brainstorm POSITIVE changes that might be adopted. Lets agree that at the end of the day we ALL want ALL track days to meet or exceed expectations and that ALL track day providers can improve. Lets agree to disagree when that's the only option...!!!
my last event with stt was a great experience, and i will do future events with stt. i think this was a fluke of a day, but these days will happen from time to time and their should be a plan in place on what to do when the shit hits the fan like it did. your comments were accusatory, false, and misleading. you also accused me of "sneaking" into a different group when it was infact stt staff that permitted a few of us based on the events of the day (one of those compromises that were made to help the customer feel better about an otherwise shitty day).also, keep in mind i didnt make any comments about breaking the rules. i asked permission to do something and it was granted.i could go on about your statements, but i appreciate your acknowledgment of what you said. although something noteworthy id say is that i saw many riders out there in both int. and adv. while sitting in the pits, and this wasnt just the last session of the day, it was throughout. and the riders im talking about really shouldnt have been in adv. at all. my #1 complaint about the day was that there were people signing up for a group higher than their ability since the lower groups sold out too soon. not only is this selfish, but it is dangerous to others on the track. when you are an advanced group rider you expect a certain level of track experience from your fellow group members. when you put someone with little track experience out there who all of a sudden brake way too early, or swerve on the track prior to entering a turn, etc... this will lead to many more crashes which is what i believe caused many of the crashes in the advanced group. this, is coupled with the fact that people sign up in advance and immediately think they have to prove themselves and push beyond their own limits while trying to keep pace and cause a crash. #2 complaint was lack of communication from event staff. we were left in the dark the entire day as to when our sessions would start. many times we had to sit on the grid for up to 20 minutes at times. a P.A. system would have helped this, or at least some coaches cruising through the pits spreading the word. #3 complaint was there was little done to try to maximize tracktime for all groups evenly. the adv. group got the shortest end of the stick. #4 complaint. way too many people on the track. and if there wasnt enough staff to watch everyone then their should have been more staff. I have offered suggestions how to improve things. I would even personally be glad to police the advanced sessions in an effort to make things safer for those who belong their and those who dont. I have also acknowledged that the day didnt turn to shit solely due to management. it was primarily the riders themselves that screwed things up by making poor decisions(reasons listed above). but when the day is getting screwed up for close to 200 riders management needs to step in with a firmer hand to regulate, and try to bring the day back on track.
obviously this is the case, i was just pointing out what i thought was a stupid statement comming from a coach
this is true, and a valid thought. although, what i didnt like was that the first sessions after lunch were cut to 15 minutes (which turned out to be 10 by the time we got on track) and the novices got two sessions in this hour. sessions should have continued at a normal 20 minute interval to keep it fair for everyone.
I think a policy for a crashed bike to sit for awhile is fair. The rider (unhurt) can have some time to regroup and think about what happened. The coaches should have the responsibility of moving the disabled bikes during waving yellows in that area. If the bike had a mechanical than he should be allowed to return. Seems like it wouldn't be too difficult to differentiate between the two.
Again this was not a personal attack on you. My statement was based on the information given by you. Thank you for clearing that up.
As Novice rider... My suggestion still stands for the Full Monte: - only two groups - maybe allow fast/advanced Novice riders in This allows more track time for both groups, and keeps first-timers from being overwhelmed on a huge track. Signed, Brad
i appreciate that, but keep in mind that you made assumptions about small pieces of information i provided without asking for clarification first which made things look different than the reality. opinion, i suppose 293 would be as good a place as any for a drag race.
